From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 09:40:47 +0200 Message-ID: <20200908074047.GC10609@tuxteam.de> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <20200906222008.qtpxy65f3updclgh@Ergus> <20200907073713.GA20443@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sHrvAb52M6C8blB9" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23943"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: emacs-devel To: Elias =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=A5rtenson?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 08 09:42:40 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFYH1-00067B-2P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 09:42:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45248 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFYH0-0006Wp-2G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 03:42:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51512) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFYFW-0004dg-GW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 03:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:51535) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFYFU-00051o-8b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 03:41:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=Id9pySROctBdZD/dGSmUYPWOtBCBbHaC/dWcAVQmuuw=; b=dgAQQDsh1HLxO6yjylzjq8jVIbgpDD2La7XwjbJhVniN7Lk8fbY46ZlOGQqx8cTDKjJs05QKLYf+LoLTBDzrKVtmqMBfQskYtPaRHKObyEdHedIwUOAueiEaqYluvMerhrE00E6mpW2w6MbOyspK/Dbt6uk3q35VrX2WRP5VygRbuSTI1ubYvucNZlj2tWPNBB31z3wulc/YrvbpK+5NE4cYjjLq45oz+si9WNswBrOC3RFyb/foKs32UInMmaJxMS76bhegwH7HPD8rO0HSl//O18/wB1WIQjZYaVfyt7FzzUkBNtBX2CtWbmVqxiZlFTm3axjMbuySdJCi0FyUYg==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1kFYFD-00034n-DR; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 09:40:47 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/08 03:26:31 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254703 Archived-At: --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 08, 2020 at 08:50:25AM +0800, Elias M=C3=A5rtenson wrote: > On Mon, 7 Sep 2020, 15:38 , wrote: >=20 > > > > I know you're well-intentioned, but if you think about it, discussions > > about defaults are bound to end like this, at least in a community as > > diverse as Emacs's is (show me another piece of software which is (a) > > user-oriented and (b) alive for over 30 years). > > >=20 > Maxima. Over 50 years at this point, and counting. Yes. Thanks for that :-) > And yes, it has the same concerns as Emacs in many areas. Remarkably > similar in fact. I see. I'd like there to be a way to have such discussions in a fashion that is constructive: on the one side, the enthusiasm of people arriving and saying "hey, let's change the world!" is very valuable, and it's always sad to see it chilled, on the other side the experience lurking in the old and seasoned corpus (an more than that: the community) is as valuable. I'd like to see such exchanges with no hurt feelings. On the contrary, they should be enjoyable for all parties alike. Is that the philosopher's stone? Or am I becoming senile? Cheers - t --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl9XNX8ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kartQCdEhpbwcR+H/BwIF8wQmUmvYWq NpMAn23kT1MDmVaZxRsca/c7mg29wy+r =Cksd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sHrvAb52M6C8blB9--