From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2020 16:03:32 +0200 Message-ID: <20200907140332.ixzkgly2o5e7fmmb@Ergus> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> <83a6y2nwo1.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgbt939z.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26178"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 16:04:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFHky-0006gm-FR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 16:04:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50508 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFHkx-0002zq-HD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 10:04:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42160) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFHkI-0002So-VQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 10:03:46 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic306-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.132.41]:45903) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFHkG-000435-J0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 10:03:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599487419; bh=+AmtPkGqGP3g1rjADjV4aiVLTEqaf4U8ZVCqaTgKZJc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=O6wieDv7iGYX4FmmYlW1etaFrIaY9DW5w6lWbBRvG2G3romDFxVF1ZWYEq0ZE6fzOJ/qKxDIoZOELmukVmGV4C4S6XgcekkU5qveuLo5t6YZk9ohL4Onm2f3FhDVXNMR+6E1xRl+FtO2myNWsqIPd5UcxvtwIcIgKhO5meq02ZMtMxNsCx300XCI/hNJhBSkMQ4dNocHsyfn9KYBKcsYRKbArV89p32+AQgXV5DAKOFtDntrOyDxzgNa6XGX/ineWjSxwo0BdGDNKIedVZ2UoUjVd/c7TGU/HGAl1NLGQjcdGlM5hSuXYBZ+TvtOLHZqLMAVsf21LYBIxWjaG6fgcw== X-YMail-OSG: FdZiTUYVM1l9Kq6LLNuOhy7.q6dn5a4k7DxpJKE3dSBHJd9ZP5zqW2xi7CAMYen oEU8UlSMGAuvGeP4GExWBwTjY2OF9RiOIRBMC5ifeBFvPiDbEKe2hRz2k4zpoVAfQUHJlsiP1wbK CT4Pfb6mqq5m1RA.GBPs1tr_clVjAdj9B0irBRwmSi4nTtBbFDhKeYAZdghwGqMwb.VMYkpWU1Lx gWvvQ0kluLlO1pkAV1AditERBFfCeQXuf_X2O_zuK2bAW_LKpOcKhQ3RimGHEO34t2jrJMOytN05 5v9inYAAK0fUboM8L8ZIrv2iot1PngfOJXH9Cc4sANU3TbWxznml8IRG.W.jO6jkQJSGMcok0iqA K7QL6M48ADJERYAJxiXrPpkejHpItFVXlMKPFQpQLCxooDPwu3YBvotLb5brejzDOZ4n6i2vpROF BtohP16KHOvZBuM3L_qRK0CdgB2GJRqaMDhqnmzuH1Nn.eJJEJT0GVCVRbLTJ5NBckrJK.UuZ7Rz R1JDxl9_XIqzlui9LC3QU8.xszOxod1xZbqNb7C5umGlqn2Yw4FYfMOTxxN.ytzxea39jGFdCwAF CFxW_p.JekK0IDzs9JpbGFymV2DrjxfNJDBadq078IaAgttaCdeyX.jWUSV8wrQxvf1BwJSEucZN hF6CubwRcU48bpcuBRwlCDGjI8hSIcj2GVBUoWurxGPjyAqbFFbnrMvWZUh_qwF_PIZ_lTd66bhP 6DV_kiCuBJ.erhpwi0x7YoyWTJfe.Jd.P.fBboBmB1s3DfRPlW3P7XUY.uDUHmLz_jTw6SUt.HDC ik0hofxJEM6kyLWT.cmUctJONV.CLEXoPj8EGgoWVf Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 7 Sep 2020 14:03:39 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp418.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2a8e5eb26efc368b25248de665d50b31; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 14:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16565 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.132.41; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic306-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/07 10:03:39 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254641 Archived-At: On Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 01:05:20PM +0000, Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions. wrote: > >> >>The defaults of emacs are really, really bad. And making the whole >>thing like what you get with DOOM Emacs is going to cost you lots of >>hours reading documentation and experimenting with your >>configuration. >> > >That's just wrong. If you want Doom Emacs, you just have to type two >commands: > >git clone --depth 1 https://github.com/hlissner/doom-emacs ~/.emacs.d > >~/.emacs.d/bin/doom install > >The first commands takes two seconds to complete, the second one about >five minutes (it downloads and compiles about 200 MB of code, fonts, >icons, ...). Then you start Emacs, and you're done. That's clearly >not "lots of hours". > I think it refers to convert vanilla emacs in a "doomed like" experience. Any way the doom experience is (in my opinion) like the spacemacs experience. A signal that 1) There are enough people interested enough in emacs (the community) and we (as developers) are not interacting enough with them or hearing their concerns and needs. 2) Part of that community are also so annoyed with the defaults (and have the needed skills) that they tried to create their own "emacs distro" like a "GNU/Linux distro". 3) They are reinventing the wheel again and again because we don't attract some of them on board to contribute part of their code into vanilla. The existence of larger sub-communities like spacemacs or doom or forks like remacs is a bad symptom and a waste of manpower we really need. My last 2 cents on this.