From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2020 00:20:08 +0200 Message-ID: <20200906222008.qtpxy65f3updclgh@Ergus> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39808"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "Alfred M. Szmidt" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Andrea Corallo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 07 00:20:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kF31p-000AGy-4n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2020 00:20:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47660 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kF31o-000813-6x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2020 18:20:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60972) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kF31H-0007RG-1P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2020 18:20:19 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic309-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.124]:34380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kF31E-00021y-AX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2020 18:20:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1599430814; bh=qJn8Fw/7H3QsITw3dIRSL4xktVRR9QfPKh+NKvGwwgc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=ltap9bpXLObaoK/KWXZPNVMXf/As6XHYDuhI3MV5QpOgb6vvKYGL46GhABsNAYND/62+C2BU0oWGsCBLJujN1HRYJPn56Dvjn35f5xLLpsEfVIVZxOcEGNCQFX8AU/W0fiUo9W8FBuVQzurQuBpPRij+1MNF6LZMuIYC8aRIvaT/Jmzxh2JZgIY3rRpVSi+GVsUSXZR+Q+5TB0jIEPcvKXEIVtXty4VJknjXi2dkq8gDnjMOyoAsVk+3UANngnDarEuWJl7XgeNv4+jsAYM04hsOzwbMR3SCBw6CZu5kwq8ynYg9UFgu1RlHSwD2glio0eTbpQJbp6MheKe4GYbWBg== X-YMail-OSG: s5cdgwEVM1ntfwYZ09STg8e6yOCUaPH7efV1Vigf_h_NDO50hpHyyyRFEp6hx3D 3YVgfAWLh9W6TxZVLh_Ew0El3Lk9WjZtsYypRh1DriJb402BFQYLUhIY6FPS1hh9psjYdqkVW8Kz Eeih.CV3sdqvWY5ztBPYWYM6_QFVRMpKoN.FKdyEoAtdk9EomEy4JiSRFw_EIZTPA13UfStjoPyH P7LxW8Kzo.G.QLGh_ez6dDGh5veHtQhfgGYPlTQzvIOD5ZZVWgsUmqnJ1tpDoUV5VTASy8M9EzJI nrnJm2wJWDPZ7STlAsz3mdmXM2gkHrYRb5iGNCFTsOgnTaGqv2i5b2kUjcJ_q2QqzsBXgFXsJeXS 76_e6Co45QIY5TekuMQ.BwxZw_q0SQeF9Z.KghW55XE2fY1CmISN2sVUIW7O5OB8iLbHooRidKIZ ylrqg6QuJfxX1gujo.DwDWYi5LoS21FBNxMoezIzxg3Ho6YDJNPXqAeH061lGmWhe5OCK2GOZhKo m_gQkH3NEaJaV9HsdlBxm3zuPAofZMdK7B7fMR687vGjqbBcTjDpu_hQA_R3bEYH7xjT_StbdL_s BofmPr21cnuMauYqRquVDTiH.Wb00P1Vav4VyKsvIJajZRnBUZ8qi9bKxq3hwah7vgd.67Fbte5u yqfyADLhtBzU_aS_eILErVG7ATy.lWQWGdGc4pBN9WlOG7JbEUuZTELjZdf67itNrz20_ApkgVRN LC1QAcyuacPq3SMPhId6vDdnnwpZHPxYj_Y_.d0LLsIKd4HYIVb0drWYl3pcOCxEGDCbJ1SLbKB7 _.maEiOKVwfJ5xTDrhhNn.RWtpwwzwY.RQEDMsuzxc Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 6 Sep 2020 22:20:14 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3ce4a635f49aa27c60cd193e7e41f9ee; Sun, 06 Sep 2020 22:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16565 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.7) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=74.6.129.124; envelope-from=spacibba@aol.com; helo=sonic309-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/06 18:20:14 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254596 Archived-At: There will be never an agreement about changing defaults with long standing users. (I can't understand the strong feeling about that because some/most of the choices we have today were actually determined by historic/technological conditions more than user preferences) So what if: Could we provide a simple command line option like "emacs -m" (or any letter not in use) which automatically loads a set of extra "experimental" defaults not suitable for older users?? (the same as emacs -l modern.el but shorter) Like a different theme, line numbers, show-paren mode, and any other "modern" feature a newbie expects in a 2020 editor? We can also provide a .desktop only for it and equivalents to make it easier to find for new users. And recommend the users to add an alias if they like to set it as default? and add a note in the welcome screen. Is this also too crazy? Probably this features will be trivial for us, but not for anyone opening emacs for the first time. I am just talking about enabling some features we already have in vanilla, but they are "hidden"; this is not doing a complex configs or so. Alternatively the user will have a copy of this file ready to copy in his home and personalize as he prefers. So he will have something "official" to start with; instead of coping random potentially outdated/problematic configs from internet. Does this makes sense? On Sun, Sep 06, 2020 at 08:49:25PM +0000, Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions. wrote: >IMO our ultimate goal should be bringing more people into Emacs, GNU, and >Free Software. As many as we can I'd say. > >I fear pleasing ourselves with a nostalgic toy may not be most effective >strategy there. > >Thanks Ergus, FWIW I support your points. > > Andrea >