From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opaque objects and Emacs documentation Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:38:34 +0200 Message-ID: <20200717153834.GB18658@tuxteam.de> References: <20200712184908.13140.5739@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20200712184909.BBC61209B1@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <7bf4d6ef-c0ec-43dc-ad5d-f6e81422ad90@yandex.ru> <83zh84m5ws.fsf@gnu.org> <3dd1c224-69b2-40af-5b2e-43a310253632@yandex.ru> <83tuybmtxs.fsf@gnu.org> <859f594b-1343-6d26-e1ac-7157c44eb56c@yandex.ru> <83a6zyk4tt.fsf@gnu.org> <20200717081346.GA31885@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CdrF4e02JqNVZeln" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35341"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 17 17:39:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jwSSl-000970-J5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:39:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40364 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwSSk-00009A-LA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:39:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42692) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwSRe-00084K-QW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:38:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:38957) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jwSRZ-0000Gp-Bq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:38:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=3GBhtu0wRVZn0Zp8bJgyrdCxRKt57duGQs6k5TZ3E0c=; b=InnvHONMZBCENuRSK6qMF1OcXZxvWakmjYe6oL+bWa1fhW4tkCsNm9d3NiyFujc4yAV4q/edzW5OUTKf2D+K9ocEbbgl9N5LiWjZ9RPQvsmUCHM/9gknZYggM3ObeJvNJKov+p+K5jQkl00nvvqb7BNJp9Gt0OxDacS1FWsuln2Rcann+oOSjBcXE/kaVfCKojSa/o/oPfbSI5NzN2Br50LlBtaMS2C4JyjHnre80IRRhsL7W4jpvDQHKue1SFzfl5pqUpjItvXE2KWiVontb9xaV15OQwsoLI9OKMFv+c4QtjM7/nXodn3o5pk2gYJE5DaXskBiZRKGHoa+yT8pRQ==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1jwSRW-00058c-RJ; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 17:38:34 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/07/17 11:27:02 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253032 Archived-At: --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 01:40:54PM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 17.07.2020 11:13, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >=20 > >I already weighted in, but in case that wasn't clear: while I think > >that "layering" and "abstraction" is a useful structuring technique > >when building up complex systems, the interfaces themselves have to > >be subject to negotiation, as everything else. >=20 > How does this apply to this particular discussion? If you have a > better suggestions for the interfaces, I'm all ears. Hm. I haven't delved in the details, and I think it'd be useless: Eli and you are both light-years smarter than me -- I just have the feeling that Eli has a perspective there that you don't, just because he's as deep in Emacs as few of us are; as current maintainer his job is to favour overall consistency over perhaps bright, but perhaps less understandable devices. > >And Dmitry -- as much respect as I have for your technical skills, > >I think you're pushing it a bit too hard. >=20 > I'm pushing because it's not the first time this kind of thing > happened, and that has been negatively affecting my ability to > contribute. I have to draw a line somewhere. Compromises aren't > working, Eli simply skips past them. I konw Eli can be stubborn :) But he's also extremely patient. > And because that move: "please explain -- I write 3 screenfuls -- > no, you didn't explain anything", is infuriating. I understand. Just give Eli the benefit of the doubt. I am certain that there is no bad intention there. On both sides. Cheers -- t --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl8RxfoACgkQBcgs9XrR2kawjwCcC17nPQe6PWTj3a9+31YE0jCp qsoAn1yTApTKRmNGQyIxyFFk4lE6mb59 =9wm9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CdrF4e02JqNVZeln--