From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Write a new package" culture instead of patches? Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 09:58:27 +0200 Message-ID: <20200518075827.GA14627@tuxteam.de> References: <4e937898-ae46-710a-cbca-e452a1156fa1@yandex.ru> <405FCFAB-30E4-4F98-81DA-3B09933E86D0@gnu.org> <20200517211403.GA57036@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="66826"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 18 09:59:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaag2-000HIC-8U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 09:59:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35728 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaag1-0004hE-5u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 03:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43070) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaafV-0004Hy-OF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 03:58:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:58786) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaafT-000691-W8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 03:58:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:Date; bh=FidlE7oxazk0NPPu2q3VkAkO0ZFtPwVE97D/OdjITOQ=; b=ofLzElLqpuLZcf1QIK3mtq2QPzyNFCN2DmCWCylO0hAPAS068lUuUp1bvNAix3ocXtyzfh6tCmosWLII9e1VKzCSGokEzuFe1Xsbuljidoi4ZL4GfC3zhjhXWohe6nTKXvLfEFSOarYne34U5uo8lyG8Xr9TVx4akmg0HH4CCwYZod6VY2hIszVPqgjvCjJw7X1PgvGadnzOsR28du9i4hei9gkcnk4SWBb2cy++iuqXy14teMHRlOBRgy80hstDxMEylyew4RRE4ObL38Jd/VDo+XAOPck0+ocwNat4Wy7PYZu/CmjoTunWUESIJncGOLRyoBzrZPG7oQL7EPiGKw==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1jaafL-0004Go-El for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 May 2020 09:58:27 +0200 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/18 03:58:27 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250714 Archived-At: --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:02:52AM +0200, Arthur Miller wrote: > Alan Third writes: >=20 > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 11:52:18AM -0700, Stefan Kangas wrote: > >>=20 > >> Has anyone else thought about this? Is it correct to say that such a > >> "package first" culture has developed? If yes, why has it developed, > >> and is there anything we could do about it? > > > > I wonder if it's related to the way that a couple of years ago many of > > the discussions on the Emacs reddit seemed to revolve around why the > > Emacs maintainers hadn't yet fixed someone's pet bug, but nobody ever > > thought to report it to us. > Could it rather be that a "github" culture has evolved, together with > social media it makes + melpa it makes it relatively easy to fork > someone's work, change/fix what bother you and make your own package > under other name. This rhymes with one observation I made: Git makes branching easy. Still, Github strongly encourages forking. Why is this so? My hunch is that for Github, the number of repositories they host is /currency/ (actually to the tune of $7.5B, as it turned out by 2018). So there's a strong motivation to multiply the number of repos. That is, I think, the same mechanism as Twitter or Facebook tolerating bots as legit accounts (up to a certain point), because they inflate their market value. And not much different as Microsoft tolerating pirated versions of Windows (remember the end-90s where everyone knew that you could generate a valid Windows license key by making sure that the middle part of the number was divisible by 7?). These are, of course, mechanisms which are totally alien to the Free Software world [1]. But I guess it's standard corporate fare. Something-something-strategy, I guess. Cheers [1] Although we're catching up :-/ -- t --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAl7CQCMACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZcwQCePKyPm2XUVnuyV158MKi6MOJP VjkAnjXDS+zD1BXKdJHMy6wnUvQ21HtX =Wa0k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW--