From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jonas Bernoulli Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Integrating package.el Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:26:46 +0100 Message-ID: <201bac3a1003010826s690a83fape7c44cadc672ac84@mail.gmail.com> References: <87wrzr6ugo.fsf@hagelb.org> <87ocl242jc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d41ihx9g.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87ocl167wx.fsf@hagelb.org> <8763795zsh.fsf@hagelb.org> <87r5pmwcf8.fsf@hagelb.org> <87hbp0qezu.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267460852 24448 80.91.229.12 (1 Mar 2010 16:27:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 16:27:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 01 17:27:22 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm8Sl-0003k6-RO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:27:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56342 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm8Sl-0002fh-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:27:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm8Se-0002cS-8R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:27:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34709 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nm8Sd-0002aC-6O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:27:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm8Sb-0002sO-VE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:27:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:55613) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nm8Sb-0002rw-LA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:27:09 -0500 Original-Received: by wyb38 with SMTP id 38so54497wyb.0 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 08:27:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=j1gaMt6gosQYWoDYmLCsqit00+zVBRlSS0WxMAgcQqk=; b=B+6amarS88vpV+z89WQLkMuRkZa2sVA7EYmqBrusAiLfqltNIJ8mxtN+dtbzMjYi1M 5WdGyyFziHNuO03PCMBBUsxtcDzxKQpsaBjopKl4DbzsOhEGkCzJYGv0JiBiH95EMq68 qkovNlvsF3OZZyGv57Uk+m1HmcT5iW9be9t+A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=WeXLQEvEVlecook1t9VNrc4q+n88y/CyzSMDS8SPsvF45tBQLoegQERzNf0/OIMZoG Xfe/GYxgi184acChRZURSJOuA622kKa9huVGwQ+eDe1UU/CIbefGAPFkjesZYU4nwRTD iYDHhw7E3XdJpzS4+KLe/HSSBqqpMj6BdTkpo= Original-Received: by 10.216.86.200 with SMTP id w50mr3291056wee.173.1267460827136; Mon, 01 Mar 2010 08:27:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87hbp0qezu.fsf@lifelogs.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d0316e53db98f2bf X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121498 Archived-At: 2010/3/1 Ted Zlatanov : > On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:40:11 -0800 Phil Hagelberg wrote: > PH> I've just implemented support for multiple package sources in > PH> package.el. Right now it is preconfigured to use ELPA, but the following > PH> snippet will let it pull in packages from my own archive source as well: > > PH> I'd love to see some other elisp library authors try to set up their own > PH> package archive sources using package-maint.el and test the > PH> multiple-archive support. > > PH> I hope that a new version of package.el incorporating my changes could > PH> be pushed out to ELPA and then possibly included in Emacs once a little > PH> more work has gone into integration with the Emacs load process. > > Jonas, have you looked at this update to package.el? No, I have not found the time yet but I am aware that Phil has added this feature [0]. > Any chance you can make your Emacsmirror accessible as a package.el repository, Not immediately. Of course I do want the Emacsmirror to support (a) package manager(s) but due to lack of time I have concentrated on mirroring (adding and *keeping up-to-date*) packages. I also haven't updated the metadata which I generate using elm.el in a long time. But this is next on my todo list - I might actually do this today so after that I will hopefully find some time to look into package-maint.el. (While I haven't pushed any updates to the metadata I have worked on improving the code used to generate it though.) Without actually having looked at package-maint.el I believe that elm.el is more advanced - so I have heard and do in part believe... At least the metadata that I generate is *different* from that generated by package-maint.el or manually; and used by package.el. I think the data I generate has some advantages - mainly I do extract more information. Also I do store it in one file per package instead of just one file (which would be huge given that now more than 2100 packages are being mirrored). In the future I would like to extend this to one file per package version. (I used to have support for this but dropped it because it is not clear yet how manual fixes would be merged when new versions are released.) Of course anyone is free to generate the package list as required by package.el himself. This could either be done by using the metadata I have generated and converting it [1] [2] or by getting a recent tarball [3] of all the git directories of all mirrored packages and generating it directly using package-maint.el. Do not misunderstand me - I do plan to support package.el in the future. But right now I am working on other things. Also I am more than willing to support anyone who would like to experiment with this. It might actually be a good idea to test package-maint.el using the 2100 packages in the Emacsmirror tarball. Right now it probably has only been tested with some selected packages which closely follow the conventions - but I have seen things you people would not dream of - attack ships on fire... > over HTTP or through patched-in Git/SVN support in package.el? I am working on git support as I do think it has some considerable advantages - generally people seam to disagree. Since I think using a dvcs instead of tarballs should be preferred I have absolutely no interest in working on generating tarballs myself. Again, like for package.el-style-metadata, that does not mean that I won't add support for tarballs if someone else writes the code. I just do not have an interest in doing it myself. I will quietly work on git support and once it is ready people can test it and decide whether it does have advantages that out weight the cost of requiring users to install git or not. Also I do not much feel like discussing this anymore. At this point I simply have nothing that would demonstrate the benefits and at the same time I doubt that anyone can come up with an argument that would convince me that it's not even worth writing a prove-of-concept. So in summary: I do wish package.el and the Emacsmirror to support one another but due to lack of time, different priorities and because it is unclear which of the two has to go how far to meet the other it is not a short term priority. -- Jonas [0] And I do not know if anyone has found the time to look at my alternative: elm.el. [1] Though while generally more informative it also lacks some information required by package.el. [2] But please wait until I have updated it. As of now it contains some severe bugs. [3] http://github.com/emacsmirror/elm-backup-pkgs