From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BIKESHED: completion faces Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 21:51:33 +0100 Message-ID: <20191106205133.njij3ve7qqy7yh3q@Ergus> References: <83h83ignrz.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftj2gma8.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhhaxalt.fsf@gmail.com> <83bltpgffr.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv7gg9oz.fsf@gnu.org> <83r22kg8pa.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="171218"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 06 21:52:02 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iSSHa-000iO7-1U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 21:52:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35028 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iSSHY-0003WV-KL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:52:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49663) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iSSHQ-0003Sk-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:51:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iSSHP-00043E-43 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:51:52 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic308-9.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.32]:41210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iSSHO-00042W-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 15:51:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1573073509; bh=ioB13FHJu1yoxv0j69jEpFUjVGw68Nfl+nEtFEN6/Eg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=LTwb6QVFxtc8rqQ1JlCpJCmPKDWuksL/v/X5/YyCa8vgZtZcwpBMbfWLWchz2Ff7ox+VAhjgbnGPIRxejA4HB6gN+p2q672u0TStoms4fRaoR5DfMmzPBX/UU3kFeBCmiO/bJ6KACV+75g90/e3MWkwYEZZKLob+4pEQnpgr0Vwlx+KhokZcA+OYrpgFHE9oU5Kogu+j+nwr2pYDGwVvnXFBbga0fQ+9WyaQVdB775zxSYKf1SW8CmHUMHkuJDsbmAEEbmCmCJEr8wYZaM/cQmwWhfMxGTFfFHHxbr1BvCnqxyGxxApeU070gD1oeHhs4nxKx0+5fpcsvIZJHg24Gg== X-YMail-OSG: XgYWITsVM1nFbvbyb_4zW2GX63XPofpYsF1RhqhCeFg4pz.wjW3oOQAN3g039pb ifl_X7odHhL6U90yd4jIbAFoz8hf7_kNWyuf9HVoVdlqQtKPUKwHiw63wW963zlfEcQq0fd0K5tD 5oRZGPPfv6ZN1osTU0A4DIyQhRbkCWgnpdrk17XY3Kh8hLkbYlmnsp3QqK.BFpUhV.ZK3v3nrD9g wmNnlo96aQZfW8b_fQj4H7793udmfU.GOX9fHjcMLNdam2NYjGyH3cWefbBhEJaVfShcvnhXeSbV 17RArNygGQjfTKqq5ThdLZUMf55PE8u.QlWU3l2EHN_l6YtV4StS24CJPyjXkIyap90SPjNOS72u R3NormGM.LegU8lvz9YM3w2QMEyfRM1jcJ3Kl4lNc4nNW5H9AV2irjHP6B9nv_5656HNYpq8pU9A Edh7e8aYfFp.rS0pk9c3VvnOKyzVdlza5IibhF.qhT195wkVmmsjCZLNbDenlQOB6BQT6DHIZjOD qB2wEfeVwWqV83ZZeBHwP3Na7yqAxQh79.PY67vP_4RcK4.u_TCxwct3t689y38yN.gKZV4insJm ex9u06XTOlE4d9MVmPwwXN0Dpf4X2Bc2Kww_WOCWKMxCnlDhb97n1Qu8g3rAz5tjlKtvxudoiToo .ChcnhfnALoiVg9pU2gUrsaJY2ZqwCa3LNXHdVfhKPClVUI2TE_J0vvfbZSb6dWEwRHzmELBod1C Ej7Fe5lX3yyZxBEwQqB9XnHZLKL0owqdLlZH9snKdcal.dPrmTMeW5YcfQpp6fk6gvu1ff5q4vs_ tVPInBZXKxSsJkOXKwhKu75PMxp2vjVAGhWuKnfEmV Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 20:51:49 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp405.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fa7d06c189f910e10b06699b9d2b78ef; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 20:51:47 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83r22kg8pa.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14680 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/1.8.0_181) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 66.163.187.32 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:241875 Archived-At: On Wed, Nov 06, 2019 at 08:29:05PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Jo?o T?vora >> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 18:14:42 +0000 >> Cc: Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov , >> emacs-devel >> >> If enough people want this, we could make it an optional behavior. I >> >> No need. It is already optional behavior. This thread discusses >> a (minimal) change to the defaults from the beginning, so that >> new users coming from any of those other editors are less confused >> by this particularity of Emacs when choosing 'flex' completion. > >If you want to make the matched parts prominent by default (and I >guess make the first-different character less prominent), then you >will have to try much harder in order to convince me. Just saying >that newbies who come from other editors will want that is not enough. > Hi: I don't use to come in this kind of discussions because they always end with too many opinions and too few agreements. But. In this kinds of things I agree with Joao. Sometimes we should agree with what all the other editors do (except when we provide something much better) for many reasons 1) It is the behaviour that the users expect, so familiar for them and that will reduce learning curve (we have enough curve for a newbie). 2) We should be modest and think that if most of the other editors follow a similar approach there should be a reason for that. (also private companies invest time and money in social market studies about what option is better... that's why MS windows is blue and have changes among the years, or the start button is in the left down corner) 3) Sometimes the implemented approach is a consequence of feature requests from users and developers and in these days they have orders of magnitude more users than us... so they are statistically more representative. But also they have tools to easily collect more opinions from less expert or casual users (like feature hub, the "issues" window on github and so on) more familiar for new generations of programmers. 4) New users will start asking for ways to reproduce the behaviour they had in their previous editors, so in the best case we will have feature requests and many questions about how to reproduce it, and people writing in the emacswiki, ergoemacs and other foros about how to do what we didn't for them. But in the worst case, external configs like ergoemacs or spacemacs will implement code to do it. Apart from this; personally: I would prefer to have highlighted the matching parts with a different colour only and the first unmatch (optional for me) being just underlined (to be consistent somehow with the toolbar everywhere else where the underline usually informs the shortcut.) We don't need to reinvent the wheel about this...