From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Third Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Mac port Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 11:57:14 +0000 Message-ID: <20190323115714.GA48604@breton.holly.idiocy.org> References: <1553247807.28810.0@yandex.ru> <65DDA834-9B3A-4AFD-8DB1-8A2FD731104E@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="269379"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.3 (2019-02-01) Cc: Emacs developers To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 23 13:03:06 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h7fMe-0017tl-Ia for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 13:03:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42660 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7fMd-0005pw-Lm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:03:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42285) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7fM1-0005V7-Gu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:02:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7fH6-0006UK-08 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 07:57:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x344.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::344]:39026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h7fH5-0006T9-Kn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 07:57:19 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x344.google.com with SMTP id t124so4493801wma.4 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:57:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=vCgqK9ZZONCWZ3690B5trfuhvDisKLXYit4cnEsnOwk=; b=A4JExSVEz1kXzv0YF5HTB6fU/KdDie/4No3IJug+C+z+GlJwYxSByuJxFC/aTRn0Sf 3YhRec2RKQVL3r9HyxlPgCc6zoKClTuY9dnTW+hNHdBpUQdl6Rxsi/YpBLz3IWcInLxu mk/Gf89DF2ljCifjeou+cC4NMEciK6aX3lCrVPWKILOqVvWsF2lf6X00kwNVrrZzgDZx oK3UltDnHjQC82wj6/nG4LoeidEprSLij+Oe+4y+qdUDy8wHqqRz4uy1u3ozWCzCoClf doq4eSK3KeDzf14VWJ3yYJdrkFV+BM5KjMJgeee+fnGHsZxYDQ8X4jX1wREeS5A0Ec62 oy4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=vCgqK9ZZONCWZ3690B5trfuhvDisKLXYit4cnEsnOwk=; b=FljKYneYiPBQM6SusHHd9dZir4x5IKHmlB1BdFC4k7FMFhl9EvFHuonlEycmC3iKl1 DZHnhp2l03GmZbnoASA9Ah1IjE1AhhX3BKvKEZUXvBdSsTLt+IhRdgpEY21YS84tp49Z 4jr0OUHAQtnzY7m0lkykxpr8mcTzXRps963CdmKtMeS++jWVSbuGEGTz+RKptPBn3VEW 8vLVMA+p09WCGg8K9e610ITPeDMH99q3SO0LrV2xIrU3hlozb4owAm1h/U4J9ZvbZbo2 aU4avL8w+6Fq/i6BF5QCcJWJ07k1U+gJKetTM7xALfj4Qk+OBGp2VOdC665U860Ntduc 7VQA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVKELyFXegUIpoNnoR+cC7PG18pt1GycZOZgsm8ZvvMlCcFq9Te gnkRakMgwdq2VT5QpphKDv4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy3j0aWrbf3/Dj5a2sGBrOXWiiL8SXVv1uQ2O4CZYeoNfdwPWYPXJVJqCBox1NyWJJQDR1HlQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5f08:: with SMTP id t8mr454392wmb.65.1553342238226; Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from breton.holly.idiocy.org (ip6-2001-08b0-03f8-8129-f0b1-3581-cbe5-87b0.holly.idiocy.org. [2001:8b0:3f8:8129:f0b1:3581:cbe5:87b0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i18sm6116626wrm.7.2019.03.23.04.57.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Mar 2019 04:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <65DDA834-9B3A-4AFD-8DB1-8A2FD731104E@gmail.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::344 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:234642 Archived-At: On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 09:15:32AM +0900, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > > > > On Mar 23, 2019, at 3:11, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > > (as a general rule, while Emacs has many > > MacOS users, it seems very few of them are interested in > > contributing to fix bugs and improve the code :-( My suspicion is that Objective C coders on Mac all use XCode, and the people using Emacs are web developers and so on. > Regarding the macOS port, could Mitsuharu provide a list of items > that he thinks should be ported to the mac port so as to remove the > need for his current port ? I don’t know the Mac port code base very well, so apologies in advance if I accidentally slander it, but I think the NS port has the potential to be a leaner, simpler port than the Mac port. To get there it needs a lot of refactoring, and ideally it would drop support for GNUstep, and possibly some older macOS versions. I’m finding it increasingly difficult to maintain backwards compatibility, particularly with things like fullscreen. OTOH, WRT the massive refactoring: if it aint broke don’t fix it. And if we did drop GNUstep it would, IMO, defeat the purpose, and we’d be as well switching to the Mac port because... The Mac port has a better maintainer than me, who knows the toolkit and things better than I could ever hope to. It ties into macOS better (I use very little macOS specific software, and the whole ‘services’ thing is a mystery to me, for example). It doesn’t have the Mojave redraw problems that have me completely scunnered at the moment. It handles concurrency better. It is simply better maintained. But then again, the Mac port makes use of things that gcc doesn’t support, like ObjC blocks, so that would probably rule it out as an official port immediately. The duplication of effort to maintain two ports seems like a waste to me, but there are definitely barriers to joining forces and having only one, official, port. But Apple may solve this one for us anyway: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/20/macos_clampdown_rumors/ ;) -- Alan Third