From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ergus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 02:45:18 +0200 Message-ID: <20180825004518.nkobqhdvarcv7mzq@Ergus> References: <444779489.8504194.1534538988289@mail.yahoo.com> <83sh3cfb3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1535157853 32501 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2018 00:44:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:44:13 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Cc: hw , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 25 02:44:09 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ftMgP-0008FM-OZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 02:44:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44137 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftMiV-0007ZJ-Sr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:46:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60991) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftMhn-0007Z6-MI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:45:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftMhk-00036Y-Ey for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:45:31 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([77.238.177.83]:34003) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ftMhk-00035V-5r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 20:45:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1535157926; bh=smZ9VJNRhInESB6T914izZ3Nk81mjNghoUbKD5FfE0I=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=O+bquxhgrnYxJhkUjo6MlGGVAqa1XGAkJLlcZ2fDVUL8LZ5s82a/wBzweZY21N3CE5UOC4GVYgFf+JTvwFbzx+iody2bDGNwRMX2XFLSSZgoYTZANqE/eMWgLndlyDoW5CQ1ykix3RE1enoGTBt4E4xFcKJNYCIStFlDhE59+Ng7hFKiSty/W7V19splFE0c6p91VIkieWozoKzoqLj/YFWkSbaPf3x3RPeBUi1JwMzeCa2IEvsCcvtBbhwvOFMKu7RKRiph7opCX8/BHu0vjbj8Xl9Zel16kGAyLB1Lwb+DQ4V7hzy9w84R4y7tEcjKoEcCAiKCec6HVSCflPuU7w== X-YMail-OSG: jo0HeJ8VM1nmh46ryw3AnAiXNEENwQfseL9Gz_PlY3OClCddwCgO.O9ouFgIH3f AfuE9UPoY5gOLahmX9VtfGJ7hZ6HUsXSk1vvGUjLvZCsORW5pHGT65bhRrHaLkLsACDthubGH70T MaPj0JAhtdlR3VNUEAOXO9QYzsRtBzfTyPBWcX3TZSyOKeX3HMVooeLZB6R1G7dgN1NIps4GvcO6 NyrJ_1vXYI02NbnKMzgKmIRnu35rdR.t68.XPPdmv0Dikrya.akfMsB0XnaxQHnuVJwuhzIMCAf. 54DFKIBVUOfldjejicy7V5tpcctlwypK1Tp_VSWAS9X7S2BkKiYrvmLAW9hoQddtexW7CPxr3zwX .WsrISVa5yTKw1orsAo13DmGZruMQDpUUVDigGm5QmXyxMU9vTKWSnslcaom1YBMKnyq6g37vAGB MIQBn1x0CXvkZMM1dK8n.GxYS.1ngryRI2uPSnK.20meBXA9wkZ3TG6CZl2AEeDKdjBbM4fQ_LHV .ayGOp3bhar.gxppk9p.8.4320NvZWINM1eYwpFdEv4wZTcbRIxJ3Z5NN0GN4U_VUZdEO5GDA8a3 jtfFgtLGv9d93KTKeuYZlxCPL2TU2CJx73mHEyIGft3xmwf.oiHZ65k7qGzeyGE8ezIvjee3iQnz ZCONuXjY.8w6.C4hV_XY70Si_y5ZdjoGzobFnwFLu94V431.CRwB8ZKiqOIEho_6C7kFWh6AIW2E jrHkzqoGXJ_zozBtjRZR1_Twkt6xz.Tv.MghYfKcs6E_FFqXVTt7liPFmA8_U9IVWcIyqLNENlpd CnY7Q3pEY3xA5sjsDnjfVhTI1YCYOdeOX1LzmU2UBU Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:45:26 +0000 Original-Received: from 2.152.205.184.dyn.user.ono.com (EHLO Ergus) ([2.152.205.184]) by smtp406.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 825ef2dbea6a92bbb3d79d16570d3845; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:45:22 +0000 (UTC) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 77.238.177.83 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:228884 Archived-At: On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 12:04:44PM +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: hw >> Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 03:00:32 +0200 >> >> How do we make such proposals? Should we post some or all of our >> settings here, including self-written functions we call with non-default >> key bindings? What are the users we should have in mind? > For me this sounds perfect. What platform could we use for this? Does fsf or savannah have something like feathub? or your plan to start a survey? Because a mailing list I thing is not dynamic enough. In case of a survey it could be very useful with the right questions. >My idea is to start with identifying particular classes of users, in >terms of stuff they mostly do in Emacs, perhaps with a second >gradation into 2 or 3 proficiency levels. If we ask to the user the time he has been using emacs, the most frequent uses he does (including languages, extra packages). We can determine the levels. Statistics do the rest. To share the survey we can add it to it'sfoss and related publications. >Then making a list of >settings each class/level generally wants to change from the built-in >defaults. When we have that, we could step back and see what to do >with the data we collected. For some, we might decide we want to >change the defaults, end of story. For others, we should discuss in >what form(s) to expose the relevant options to each such group of >users. > 100% agree! >That is just one idea, of course; other ideas for making progress are >welcome. > I propose a simple online survey, but I don't know what platform will you approve for this: Some of my proposed questions are: (more or less) ====================================== Objective questions: ------------------- 1) Time of experience and using emacs. 1.1) Age range (10-20; 20-30 ...) 2) Main working/use field (programming, writing, etc) 2.1) Do you use the preferences dialog or manual init.el editing in elisp? 3) if programming: ( Most used language(s) / packages / tools) (probably give some lists here) 4) Operative system / platform? 5) Do you use terminal or gui emacs? 6) Do you use emacs server? 7) What documentation do you use the most? (self documented in emacs, emacs wiki, what ever gives the web search) 8) Have you contributed to the emacs development in the past? 9) Have you contributed or created any emacs package? Specific questions ------------------ 1) What keybindings do you use? (default emacs, vim like modes (evile, evil-mode..), ergoemacs, god-emacs, other?) 2) Do you access or read the emacs mailing list? (frequently, rarely, never, is there a mailing list?) ?) Maybe add some questions depending of the languages he added in previous section. Subjective questions -------------------- 1) Self qualification user level. 2) Self qualification e-lisp knowledge. 3) Why did you started using emacs (maybe give some possible options) 4) What you don't like of emacs. 5) What do you thing could be improved in emacs? 6) What new features should be included in emacs? =================================== Of course all this is just a pre-pre-alpha proposal that I put here for your consideration. I can help doing the survey once you tell me the platform you approve to use. Once we all agree in a list of questions we can start sharing it with a fix deadline. Does it looks right for you? >> (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.org\\'" . org-mode)) > >This is already in the defaults. > >> (setq scroll-margin 0) > >This is the default. > >> (setq Man-width 75) > >Emacs nowadays calculates the width dynamically, depending on the >dimensions of the window. > >> (load "~/emacs/my-mark-line") > >This is not really a setting ;-)