From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 26.1 release branch created Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:04:40 +0000 Message-ID: <20170922180440.GA7229@ACM> References: <83377mls4d.fsf@gnu.org> <20170919173511.GA19168@ACM> <20170921205447.GA8240@ACM> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1506103918 12842 195.159.176.226 (22 Sep 2017 18:11:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 18:11:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 22 20:11:54 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dvSQc-00030O-3K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 20:11:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60506 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dvSQh-0001o2-RI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:11:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51644) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dvSQZ-0001ni-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:11:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dvSQW-0004k8-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:11:51 -0400 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:10876 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dvSQV-0004jF-W9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:11:48 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 12790 invoked by uid 3782); 22 Sep 2017 18:11:45 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6950.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.105.80]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 20:11:44 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 7290 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Sep 2017 18:04:40 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 193.149.48.4 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:218694 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 22:19:53 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > I have redefined > > the value of nil in text-quoting-style to mean "no translation of > > quotes" and introduced t to mean "prefer curved quotes", the meaning nil > > previously had. > Let's not change the semantics of text-quoting-style's values. Such a change is > not worth the compatibility hassle to users. What compatibility hassle? There is none. The only hassle would come if some user had written something like: (setq text-quoting-style nil) in her .emacs. Users don't set configuration variables to their defaults. Life is too short for that. Or can you picture some other scenario which would cause hassle? > John asked you to propose a patch to make text-quoting-style > customizable, not to change its semantics. Its semantics is entirely unchanged in every important respect. > Whether text-quoting-style is customizable is orthogonal to what its > values mean, and we shouldn't conflate the two issues. There will be no other chance to correct the poor choice of symbols in text-quoting-style. It has to be done now, or it can never be done. > > quotes. In contrast, a call using a format like @t{"Missing '%s'"} > > with only apostrophes typically generates a message like @t{"Missing > > ’foo’"} with only closing curved quotes, an unusual style in English. > > +One way around this problem is to bind @code{text-quoting-style} to > > +@code{nil} around the call to @code{error}; this causes the > > +@acronym{ASCII} quote characters to be output unchanged. > This doc patch, which occurs in multiple places, heads in the wrong direction. > "Missing `%s'" is the typical way to quote in Emacs source code. The current > documentation gently warns the programmer to avoid "Missing '%s'" as this is not > the usual Emacs style .... See below. > .... and typically won't look good anyway. If the warning is not clear > enough we should clarify it, not encourage proliferation of atypical > formats. Again, see below. But the main point here is to remind the reader that quotes can be output as is by binding text-quoting-style, regardless of whether these quotes are used in pairs to, er, quote something, or whether they need to stand for themselves (as was the case in cc-engine.el some while ago). Perhaps you could suggest an improved wording which would give the reader clear information about binding text-quoting-style, but without appearing to encourage any non-standard quoting styles. > > +** The variable `text-quoting-style' is now a customizable option. It > This (and other changes to NEWS) should use straight quotes, as that's the style > used in NEWS now. A non-standard quoting style in NEWS? ;-) OK, I'll fix that NEWS item. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).