CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Emacs.

The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
standalone CC Mode release 5.33.

This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
people reporting bugs.

I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
"5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.

Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Noam Postavsky]

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> Hello, Emacs.
>
> The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
> since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
> standalone CC Mode release 5.33.
>
> This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
> people reporting bugs.
>
> I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
> "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
> make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
> CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.
>
> Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?
>

Wouldn't it make more sense to bump the standalone version to 5.34
rather than moving the builtin version backwards?

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Noam.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:29:50AM -0500, Noam Postavsky wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> > Hello, Emacs.

> > The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
> > since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
> > standalone CC Mode release 5.33.

> > This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
> > people reporting bugs.

> > I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
> > "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
> > make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
> > CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.

> > Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?


> Wouldn't it make more sense to bump the standalone version to 5.34
> rather than moving the builtin version backwards?

Not really.  Standalone 5.33 has already been released, and its use of
the version number is "correct".  Emacs 25.1's use of "5.33" for CC Mode
was a mistake.  I would like to correct that mistake for 25.2.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "AM" == Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

AM> Not really. Standalone 5.33 has already been released, and its use of the
AM> version number is "correct". Emacs 25.1's use of "5.33" for CC Mode was a
AM> mistake. I would like to correct that mistake for 25.2.

I don't have any strong disagreement with doing this, although it may
introduce yet more confusion.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alexander Shukaev]

On 12/18/2016 05:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Emacs.
>
> The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
> since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
> standalone CC Mode release 5.33.
>
> This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
> people reporting bugs.
>
> I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
> "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
> make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
> CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.
>
> Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?
>

Hi,

How to actually install this up-to-date version through 'package.el'?

Regards,
Alexander

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alexander Shukaev]

On 12/20/2016 12:13 AM, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
> On 12/18/2016 05:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> Hello, Emacs.
>>
>> The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
>> since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
>> standalone CC Mode release 5.33.
>>
>> This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
>> people reporting bugs.
>>
>> I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
>> "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
>> make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
>> CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.
>>
>> Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> How to actually install this up-to-date version through 'package.el'?
>
> Regards,
> Alexander
>

Did my mail get lost or?

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Alexander.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 12:08:21AM +0100, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
> On 12/20/2016 12:13 AM, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
> > On 12/18/2016 05:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> >> Hello, Emacs.

> >> The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
> >> since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
> >> standalone CC Mode release 5.33.

> >> This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
> >> people reporting bugs.

> >> I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
> >> "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
> >> make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
> >> CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.

> >> Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?


> > Hi,

> > How to actually install this up-to-date version through 'package.el'?

> > Regards,
> > Alexander


> Did my mail get lost or?

Sorry, just got a bit distracted by other things for a day or two.

CC Mode is not available through package.el.  There's either the version
in an Emacs release (which is frozen at pretest time, typically several
months before the release), or there's the stand alone version (which can
be any age) available from http://cc-mode.sourceforge.net/.  The latest
stand alone version, 5.33, was released in August 2016.

Alternatively, you can use the head of the VCS repository either at
savannah (for the entire Emacs version) or at sourceforge (for just CC
Mode).

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alexander Shukaev]

On 12/22/2016 05:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Alexander.
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 12:08:21AM +0100, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
>> On 12/20/2016 12:13 AM, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
>>> On 12/18/2016 05:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> Hello, Emacs.
>
>>>> The version of CC Mode within Emacs 25.1 is 5.33.  This is unfortunate,
>>>> since that version is at a much earlier stage of development than the
>>>> standalone CC Mode release 5.33.
>
>>>> This conflict in the use of "5.33" has led to some confusion amongst
>>>> people reporting bugs.
>
>>>> I would thus like to change the version number in Emacs 25.2 to
>>>> "5.32.99", to minimise further confusion.  I think it would be best to
>>>> make an entry about this in NEWS, too.  Incidentally, the actual code in
>>>> CC Mode in the Emacs 25 has not changed since the realease of 25.1.
>
>>>> Does anybody have any objections to this renumbering?
>
>
>>> Hi,
>
>>> How to actually install this up-to-date version through 'package.el'?
>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alexander
>
>
>> Did my mail get lost or?
>
> Sorry, just got a bit distracted by other things for a day or two.
>
> CC Mode is not available through package.el.  There's either the version
> in an Emacs release (which is frozen at pretest time, typically several
> months before the release), or there's the stand alone version (which can
> be any age) available from http://cc-mode.sourceforge.net/.  The latest
> stand alone version, 5.33, was released in August 2016.
>
> Alternatively, you can use the head of the VCS repository either at
> savannah (for the entire Emacs version) or at sourceforge (for just CC
> Mode).
>

Hello Alan,

To me that looks like a major problem.  It means that I have three 
options to keep track of your package:

1.  Install it manually by copying corresponding '*.el' files into my 
Emacs configuration repository and shadow `load-path' on my own properly.
2.  Make your repository to be a submodule of mine (what does not work 
for me since you are using Mercurial, while I use Git) and shadow 
`load-path' on my own properly.
3.  Use `el-get' to do that management for me.

All of these I find unacceptable: #1 smells like 90's (or earlier), #2 
already mentioned, #3 requires another dependency that I don't want to 
deal with at the moment.  All of that brings up a simple question: why 
such a widespread and useful package is not packaged on MELPA and other 
popular online archives?

Kind regards,
Alexander

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@Alexander.Shukaev.name>
> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2017 23:02:10 +0100
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> 1.  Install it manually by copying corresponding '*.el' files into my 
> Emacs configuration repository and shadow `load-path' on my own properly.
> 2.  Make your repository to be a submodule of mine (what does not work 
> for me since you are using Mercurial, while I use Git) and shadow 
> `load-path' on my own properly.
> 3.  Use `el-get' to do that management for me.
> 
> All of these I find unacceptable: #1 smells like 90's (or earlier), #2 
> already mentioned, #3 requires another dependency that I don't want to 
> deal with at the moment.

How is the smell of it relevant when you want software that will work
for you?

IOW, it looks like both #1 and #2 are possible and easy, and you just
want Alan to provide CC Mode though package.el regardless.  It's his
choice, and his labor, you know.

We should be grateful to him for maintaining CC Mode.

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Alexander.

On Sat, Jan 07, 2017 at 11:02:10PM +0100, Alexander Shukaev wrote:
> On 12/22/2016 05:34 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Alexander.

[ .... ]

> > CC Mode is not available through package.el.  There's either the
> > version in an Emacs release (which is frozen at pretest time,
> > typically several months before the release), or there's the stand
> > alone version (which can be any age) available from
> > http://cc-mode.sourceforge.net/.  The latest stand alone version,
> > 5.33, was released in August 2016.

> > Alternatively, you can use the head of the VCS repository either at
> > savannah (for the entire Emacs version) or at sourceforge (for just
> > CC Mode).


> Hello Alan,

> To me that looks like a major problem.  It means that I have three 
> options to keep track of your package:

> 1.  Install it manually by copying corresponding '*.el' files into my 
> Emacs configuration repository and shadow `load-path' on my own properly.
> 2.  Make your repository to be a submodule of mine (what does not work 
> for me since you are using Mercurial, while I use Git) and shadow 
> `load-path' on my own properly.
> 3.  Use `el-get' to do that management for me.

> All of these I find unacceptable: #1 smells like 90's (or earlier), #2 
> already mentioned, #3 requires another dependency that I don't want to 
> deal with at the moment.  All of that brings up a simple question: why 
> such a widespread and useful package is not packaged on MELPA and other 
> popular online archives?

Largely because of the extra work involved in creating and maintaining
these extra copies of CC Mode (much of which would be about finding out
how to do it).

I already maintain CC Mode in three places (CC Mode at SourceForge, the
Emacs repostitory, the XEmacs package repository).  If I were to add a
fourth, just how much testing would that involve each time I fix a bug or
add a feature?

If you don't like this situation, you could do the work yourself to set
up and maintain CC Mode in ELPA or MELPA.  This would have to be a long
term commitment, by the way (otherwise the ELPA/MELPA versions would fall
into disrepair, adversely affecting the reputation of CC Mode).  I could
certainly work together with you to assist in this.

> Kind regards,
> Alexander

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: CC Mode version number for Emacs 25.2

[Stefan Monnier]

> such a widespread and useful package is not packaged on MELPA and other
> popular online archives?

Actually, it should be pretty easy to provide a GNU ELPA package built
right out of the emacs.git, like we do for let-alist, ntlm, and
soap-client.

It should "just" need the right lines to elpa.git's externals-list:

    ("cc-mode" :core ("lisp/progmodes/cc-mode.el" "lisp/progmodes/cc-lang.el"
                      "lisp/progmodes/cc-awk.el"  "lisp/progmodes/cc-defs.el"
                      ...))

Plus the usual header lines in cc-mode.el.


        Stefan