From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Perry E. Metzger" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as browser (was Re: Concurrency, again) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:27 -0400 Message-ID: <20161020111527.26bf4ab9@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <87vawosoul.fsf@elephly.net> <20161019090741.46ea2704@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161019163806.7c77f100@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83twc7tqxr.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476978547 25777 195.159.176.226 (20 Oct 2016 15:49:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 15:49:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rekado@elephly.net, jwiegley@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 20 17:48:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bxFaQ-0005AK-Pu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:48:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55711 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bxFaT-0003he-0w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:48:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58280) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bxF4A-0004Oz-8m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bxF49-0007PB-BF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:34 -0400 Original-Received: from hacklheber.piermont.com ([166.84.7.14]:33392) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bxF44-0007NR-H3; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:28 -0400 Original-Received: from snark.cb.piermont.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hacklheber.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B94B234; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from jabberwock.cb.piermont.com (jabberwock.cb.piermont.com [10.160.2.107]) by snark.cb.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589152DE01E; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:15:27 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83twc7tqxr.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 166.84.7.14 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208537 Archived-At: On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:33:52 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Wayland is on the horizon for Linux. X doesn't have an infinite > > life ahead of it, it dates from the 1980s and the free OS world > > is working to move past it (thus Wayland). > > Mostly irrelevant for Emacs, since we have no experts on that on > board, and no development being done in that direction AFAIK. > Without such development, we will be forever tied to X (and die > when it dies), and any attempts to break those ties will end up > like the Cairo build did, unfortunately, even though the person who > worked on that was an excellent expert (he just left too soon). > > IOW, all these nice developments are just pipe dreams, as long as no > one works seriously on adapting Emacs to them. I have never really looked at the terminal layer stuff. (There are four front ends now, right? MS Windows, X, NextStep and tty, yes?) Is there any documentation about the internal interfaces between the terminal layer and the back end? I doubt I'm skilled enough in something like Wayland to do this work but I'd like to get a bit of a sense of how awful the work is. And what *did* happen to the Cairo stuff? Cairo would make Wayland easy if I recall correctly. > IMO, working on that is much more important for the future of Emacs > than any other improvements, including, but not limited to, the > "future of Emacs Lisp" discussions, the "feature/integrated-elpa" > discussions, etc. Developing Emacs without first-class experts on X > on board makes no sense to me. Perhaps no first class experts in the area are aware that Emacs needs the help? Perry -- Perry E. Metzger perry@piermont.com