From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Perry E. Metzger" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Web browsing (was Re: Concurrency, again) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:08 -0400 Message-ID: <20161018162908.316a8b38@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476822584 20828 195.159.176.226 (18 Oct 2016 20:29:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 20:29:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 18 22:29:36 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb0h-0002VV-4V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 22:29:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43787 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb0j-0000uD-50 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47545) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb0d-0000u8-FA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb0c-00057v-FZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:15 -0400 Original-Received: from hacklheber.piermont.com ([166.84.7.14]:56852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwb0X-00054O-QP; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:09 -0400 Original-Received: from snark.cb.piermont.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hacklheber.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1643F5FC; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from jabberwock.cb.piermont.com (jabberwock.cb.piermont.com [10.160.2.107]) by snark.cb.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BED2DE01E; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:08 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 166.84.7.14 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208448 Archived-At: On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:47:43 -0400 Richard Stallman wrote: > > Every open browser tab (should I say "window", this being > > emacs?) can potentially be doing all sorts of computation in > > the background via JavaScript, > > We should not make Emacs a platform for running nonfree software > sent from servers designed to snoop on people. I agree, but that's predicated on first answering the question of how to make Emacs into a good browser. Defensive systems (like the open source Brave browser) have shown that there are mechanisms that can be used to block bad javascript and links, so the technology is understood at least in terms of what sorts of things one needs to block etc. I'm concerned, however, about the vast amount of work needed to get Emacs browsing to the point where anti-spyware measures are useful, as unless Emacs gets powerful enough to really browse the modern web well, there won't be any issue of people being spied on via Emacs since there will be no users. This involves things like thinking hard about the architectural problems involved. > An ethical web browser requires lots of work. Sure, and I run loads of anti-spying goop on my browser right now that I would want in Emacs too. Again, though, it is only possible to add anti-spying measures to an Emacs that is capable of browsing the web at all. So I think a good first step is figuring out how that might be achieved. > If Emacs is going to have a web browser powerful enough to be > vulnerable to these things, then it too has to be changed to defend > against them. No argument whatsoever. Again, I think one wants Emacs to be able to do all this (to provide a really good integrated work environment), but there is a *staggering* amount of work that would need to be done to make all this happen. I'm not even sure the dream is realistic. I would like to see it though. Perry -- Perry E. Metzger perry@piermont.com