From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Web browsing (was Re: Concurrency, again)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:29:08 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161018162908.316a8b38@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1bwaMR-00084d-CE@fencepost.gnu.org>
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:47:43 -0400 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
wrote:
> > Every open browser tab (should I say "window", this being
> > emacs?) can potentially be doing all sorts of computation in
> > the background via JavaScript,
>
> We should not make Emacs a platform for running nonfree software
> sent from servers designed to snoop on people.
I agree, but that's predicated on first answering the question of how
to make Emacs into a good browser. Defensive systems (like the open
source Brave browser) have shown that there are mechanisms that can be
used to block bad javascript and links, so the technology is
understood at least in terms of what sorts of things one needs to
block etc.
I'm concerned, however, about the vast amount of work needed to get
Emacs browsing to the point where anti-spyware measures are useful, as
unless Emacs gets powerful enough to really browse the modern web
well, there won't be any issue of people being spied on via Emacs
since there will be no users. This involves things like thinking hard
about the architectural problems involved.
> An ethical web browser requires lots of work.
Sure, and I run loads of anti-spying goop on my browser right now that
I would want in Emacs too. Again, though, it is only possible to add
anti-spying measures to an Emacs that is capable of browsing the web
at all. So I think a good first step is figuring out how that might be
achieved.
> If Emacs is going to have a web browser powerful enough to be
> vulnerable to these things, then it too has to be changed to defend
> against them.
No argument whatsoever.
Again, I think one wants Emacs to be able to do all this (to provide a
really good integrated work environment), but there is a *staggering*
amount of work that would need to be done to make all this happen. I'm
not even sure the dream is realistic. I would like to see it though.
Perry
--
Perry E. Metzger perry@piermont.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-10-18 20:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 348+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-09-11 16:29 Guile emacs thread (again) Christopher Allan Webber
2014-09-14 16:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-16 14:43 ` Grim Schjetne
2014-09-16 15:50 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Stefan Monnier
2014-09-16 16:03 ` Lennart Borgman
2014-09-17 18:24 ` Jorgen Schaefer
2014-09-17 18:42 ` Emacs Lisp's future Lars Brinkhoff
2014-09-17 19:25 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Lally Singh
2014-09-18 2:07 ` Alexis
2014-09-18 16:40 ` Emacs Lisp's future Daniel Colascione
2014-09-18 21:54 ` Regular expression creation [was: Re: Emacs Lisp's future] Alexis
2014-09-18 23:37 ` Aurélien Aptel
2014-09-19 0:00 ` Alexis
2014-09-19 2:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 10:07 ` Alexis
2014-09-26 15:25 ` Filipp Gunbin
2014-09-19 18:04 ` Daniel Colascione
2014-09-18 6:35 ` Emacs Lisp's future Andreas Röhler
2014-09-18 15:17 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-18 16:19 ` Ivan Andrus
2014-09-18 23:19 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 7:18 ` Andreas Röhler
2014-09-19 8:10 ` Andreas Schwab
2014-09-19 8:46 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 8:43 ` Emacs Lisp's future (was: Guile emacs thread (again)) Emilio Lopes
2014-09-16 16:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-16 16:54 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2014-09-17 15:14 ` Emacs Lisp's future Stefan Monnier
2014-09-17 16:57 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2014-09-16 16:59 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-16 22:58 ` Mark H Weaver
2014-09-16 23:10 ` Mark H Weaver
2014-09-17 13:55 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 15:19 ` Mark H Weaver
2014-09-17 16:23 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 18:10 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-17 5:04 ` mhw
2014-09-17 14:03 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 14:39 ` Mark H Weaver
2014-09-17 15:11 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 10:48 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2014-09-17 10:53 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-17 11:21 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 13:50 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-17 11:17 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-17 11:35 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-17 12:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-17 13:54 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-17 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 14:30 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 15:10 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-17 18:04 ` performance isn't a concern in ... " Nic Ferrier
2014-09-17 19:08 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 7:54 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2014-09-17 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-17 15:07 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-17 15:33 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 20:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-17 22:42 ` Daniel Colascione
2014-09-18 2:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-18 3:17 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 9:04 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 9:27 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 11:15 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 3:46 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 9:53 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 10:09 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 11:29 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 12:07 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 14:12 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 14:56 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-18 15:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-18 16:44 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-17 17:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 17:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-17 20:21 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-18 12:48 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-18 14:15 ` Rasmus
2014-09-18 14:34 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-18 15:01 ` Rasmus
2014-09-18 16:08 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-18 16:18 ` Rasmus
2014-09-18 19:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-18 23:18 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 0:00 ` Rasmus
2014-09-19 8:00 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-19 10:46 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-09-19 11:12 ` David Kastrup
2014-09-19 16:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-09-19 11:38 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-19 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 11:53 ` Rasmus
2014-09-19 18:01 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <<E1XV2UO-0005CA-Vk@fencepost.gnu.org>
2014-09-19 18:43 ` Drew Adams
2014-09-18 23:17 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 0:03 ` Rasmus
2014-09-19 10:27 ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-09-23 7:45 ` Emilio Lopes
2014-09-26 16:50 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2014-09-26 18:23 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2014-09-29 8:33 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-29 13:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-29 14:47 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-30 7:58 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2014-09-30 12:19 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-30 16:15 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-30 18:21 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2014-09-30 19:18 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2014-09-30 16:15 ` Nicolas Richard
2014-09-30 17:54 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2014-09-30 18:19 ` Drew Adams
2014-09-26 20:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-18 23:17 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-18 23:37 ` Rasmus
2014-09-19 2:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 6:26 ` Adding packages to ELPA (was: Emacs Lisp's future) Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 6:47 ` Adding packages to ELPA Rasmus
2014-09-19 13:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 13:56 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-09-19 16:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 12:31 ` Sam Steingold
2014-09-19 13:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 14:29 ` Sam Steingold
2014-09-19 13:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 14:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 15:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 15:41 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-19 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 18:03 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 16:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-19 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-19 18:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-20 16:09 ` Stephen Leake
2014-09-20 16:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-21 15:05 ` Stephen Leake
2014-09-20 20:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-20 16:00 ` Stephen Leake
2014-09-20 16:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-22 7:53 ` Phillip Lord
2014-09-22 14:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-22 19:34 ` SP? {Spam?} " Phillip Lord
2014-09-19 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-19 18:02 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-17 22:49 ` Emacs Lisp's future Daniel Colascione
2014-09-17 12:46 ` Eric Brown
2014-09-17 13:33 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-17 13:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 15:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer
2014-09-17 20:23 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-17 21:13 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2014-09-20 19:31 ` Robin Templeton
2016-10-07 10:47 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2016-10-07 11:03 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2016-10-07 11:27 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-10-07 11:48 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2016-10-08 14:00 ` Ben
2016-10-08 15:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-07 12:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-08 8:23 ` Helmut Eller
2016-10-08 12:07 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-08 14:26 ` Nicolas Petton
2016-10-08 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-08 21:40 ` Nicolas Petton
2016-10-08 22:15 ` Helmut Eller
2016-10-10 9:00 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-11 1:42 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-11 7:47 ` Helmut Eller
2016-10-11 14:44 ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-10-12 3:17 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-13 21:23 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-13 21:35 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-17 0:44 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-10 4:09 ` Georges Ko
2016-10-10 4:51 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-10 13:56 ` Georges Ko
2016-10-11 4:06 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-10-11 4:18 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-11 7:16 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-10-11 13:33 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-11 14:54 ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-10-11 15:10 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-11 17:55 ` Elias Mårtenson
2016-10-11 17:08 ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-10-10 15:26 ` raman
2016-10-07 15:32 ` Kelvin White
2016-10-07 16:18 ` Søren Pilgård
2016-10-07 16:25 ` Kaushal Modi
2016-10-08 2:09 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-08 20:58 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-07 17:07 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-09 12:03 ` Toon Claes
2016-10-09 12:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-10 2:59 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-10 7:17 ` Concurrency, again (was: Emacs Lisp's future) Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-10 15:42 ` Concurrency, again Paul Eggert
2016-10-12 12:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-12 15:24 ` raman
2016-10-12 16:42 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-12 17:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-12 18:01 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-12 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-12 19:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-12 20:59 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-12 21:20 ` Søren Pilgård
2016-10-12 21:33 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-12 22:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-12 23:33 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 5:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-13 13:27 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-13 15:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-13 17:25 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-13 18:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-14 21:01 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-14 21:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-15 1:24 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-15 5:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-15 22:03 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-16 0:38 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-16 6:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 0:43 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-17 6:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-25 13:34 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-25 22:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-10-13 19:34 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-13 19:49 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 15:26 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-14 15:47 ` Michael Albinus
2016-10-14 16:57 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 18:03 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-14 18:06 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-15 7:16 ` Michael Albinus
2016-10-17 14:13 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-17 18:33 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-17 18:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-14 17:01 ` Stefan Huchler
2016-10-17 14:53 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-17 16:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 16:34 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-17 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 17:53 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-17 18:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-18 3:27 ` Stefan Huchler
2016-10-18 14:34 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-18 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 15:05 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-18 15:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 19:26 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-10-18 15:15 ` joakim
2016-10-18 16:20 ` Stefan Huchler
2016-10-18 18:37 ` Browsers inside Emacs (was Re: Concurrency, again) Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-17 18:19 ` Concurrency, again Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 19:47 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-18 19:47 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-18 20:29 ` Perry E. Metzger [this message]
2016-10-19 19:57 ` Web browsing (was Re: Concurrency, again) Richard Stallman
2016-10-19 20:44 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 18:04 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-19 8:52 ` Concurrency, again Ricardo Wurmus
2016-10-19 13:07 ` Emacs as browser (was Re: Concurrency, again) Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-19 20:02 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-19 20:38 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 7:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 15:15 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 15:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 22:22 ` Cairo bugs (was Re: Emacs as browser (was Re: Concurrency, again)) Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-21 7:31 ` Emacs as browser (was Re: Concurrency, again) Dov Grobgeld
2016-10-21 19:43 ` Paul Eggert
2016-10-23 6:23 ` Dov Grobgeld
2016-10-23 9:39 ` Dov Grobgeld
2016-10-23 10:26 ` Paul Eggert
2016-10-20 18:15 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-10-20 18:41 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 20:56 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-10-21 1:45 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-20 19:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 20:33 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-10-21 6:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-21 12:39 ` Tookits (was Re: Emacs as browser) Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-21 12:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-21 13:45 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 18:04 ` Emacs as browser (was Re: Concurrency, again) Richard Stallman
2016-10-20 18:30 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-20 18:57 ` Paul Eggert
2016-10-21 1:45 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-21 3:09 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-25 13:30 ` Concurrency, again Philipp Stephani
2016-10-12 21:24 ` joakim
2016-10-12 18:19 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-15 4:45 ` SAKURAI Masashi
2016-10-17 15:29 ` Perry E. Metzger
2016-10-18 3:14 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-18 6:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 7:58 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-18 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18 10:08 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-18 10:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-19 10:18 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-19 11:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 6:08 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-20 7:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-20 7:12 ` Herring, Davis
2016-10-20 7:55 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-20 16:22 ` Paul Eggert
2016-10-18 10:46 ` Alan Third
2016-10-19 7:02 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-10-18 14:04 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-25 13:27 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-25 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-25 16:45 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-25 16:48 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-25 17:04 ` Stefan Huchler
2016-10-25 18:43 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-25 21:44 ` John Wiegley
2016-10-25 23:28 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-27 17:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-27 19:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-10-27 20:55 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2016-10-27 21:50 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-10-28 7:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-31 6:42 ` Tom Tromey
2016-10-26 14:03 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-26 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-25 17:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-25 13:22 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-25 14:24 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-25 14:41 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-26 13:50 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-26 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-10-26 14:39 ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-10-25 16:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-25 23:47 ` Richard Stallman
2016-10-10 15:24 ` Emacs Lisp's future raman
2016-10-09 12:43 ` Søren Pilgård
2016-10-09 13:13 ` Philipp Stephani
2016-10-09 13:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-17 19:29 ` Guile emacs thread (again) Lluís
2014-09-17 19:34 ` Lally Singh
2014-09-18 12:23 ` Robin Templeton
2014-09-19 1:15 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2014-09-20 13:20 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-20 15:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-21 13:35 ` Richard Stallman
2014-09-21 16:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-09-21 17:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-09-21 20:09 ` Stefan Monnier
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