From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Perry E. Metzger" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Browsers inside Emacs (was Re: Concurrency, again) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:37:58 -0400 Message-ID: <20161018143758.44b040ae@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83twcayku6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017135353.533db169@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <87wph6cp5i.fsf@jupiter.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476815959 23428 195.159.176.226 (18 Oct 2016 18:39:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:39:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Huchler , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 18 20:39:07 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwZHc-0001YT-Pe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 20:38:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43282 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwZHf-0004E6-0q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:38:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55593) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwZH4-0004Co-IV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:38:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwZH0-0008RA-6a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:38:06 -0400 Original-Received: from hacklheber.piermont.com ([2001:470:30:84:e276:63ff:fe62:3400]:42777) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwZH0-0008Nd-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from snark.cb.piermont.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hacklheber.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24AB5FC; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from jabberwock.cb.piermont.com (jabberwock.cb.piermont.com [10.160.2.107]) by snark.cb.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741A82DE01E; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:37:58 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:470:30:84:e276:63ff:fe62:3400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208438 Archived-At: On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 16:34:18 +0200 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Yes. It's pretty opaque. I think it's possible to see a way to > interact with these objects more naturally by creating a Javascript > bridge that would expose the DOM fully to Emacs, and then you could > rewrite all Emacs commands to do things to that DOM. Like `C-t' > (transpose-chars) with "point" inside one of these objects would > look at the DOM around point, figure out the necessary changes, and > then update the DOM inside the widget. > > And so on. > > But it would be... er... a major undertaking, and it would always > be a toy. > > And it's irrelevant to the concurrency discussion, really. :-) It is irrelevant to the concurrency discussion, but I don't think it is irrelevant overall. I think the ability to do things like edit web pages inside emacs in WYSYWIG mode with simultaneous changes in the real web page buffer would be *amazing*, and totally worthwhile, and it need not be a toy. There are real applications here beyond just editing web pages and having Emacs be a really competitive mail reader again even for people who deal with people that use HTML email all day. The problem is, though, as I've said, it would be enormous work to do this, and emacs as it stands wasn't built for this. Another problem, btw, is that currently there is only Webkit integration for X users. I get that Windows and Mac are lower priorities because they aren't free software but it would be important to have something that is cross platform and not very X dependent. (Hell, in the medium term, X is getting replaced by Wayland on GNU/Linux as well.) Perry -- Perry E. Metzger perry@piermont.com