From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Perry E. Metzger" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:53:53 -0400 Message-ID: <20161017135353.533db169@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83twcayku6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476727334 28577 195.159.176.226 (17 Oct 2016 18:02:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 18:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 17 20:02:10 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCEb-0005Yi-0h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 20:02:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCEc-0000H2-3B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:02:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55238) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwC6v-0002bg-UM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:54:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwC6r-0003E0-Fo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:54:05 -0400 Original-Received: from hacklheber.piermont.com ([166.84.7.14]:54017) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwC6m-0003D0-8o; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:53:56 -0400 Original-Received: from snark.cb.piermont.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hacklheber.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9781E26D; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from jabberwock.cb.piermont.com (jabberwock.cb.piermont.com [10.160.2.107]) by snark.cb.piermont.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A16D2DE015; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:53:54 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <83twcayku6.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 166.84.7.14 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208374 Archived-At: On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 19:57:37 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > Imagine, though, if in the not too distant future Emacs is > > > > used by many of us as our web browser thanks to Webkit > > > > integration. That might change the game a lot. > > > > > > Asynchronous network communications are supported already on > > > master, so I'm not sure what problems you see in that > > > direction. > > > > Every open browser tab (should I say "window", this being emacs?) > > can potentially be doing all sorts of computation in the > > background via JavaScript, and that could potentially momentarily > > hang the editor if they're sharing an underlying thread. > > So you are saying the problem is only with URLs that invoke > JavaScript? Good. Well, active content like video or audio too. For good or ill, though, active content is now most of the web. Also, the line between JavaScript and active content (like HTML5 video) is often thin. If one wanted to have Emacs be a truly effective browser, it would need the ability to deal with this. Someone might want to watch HTML5 video in one Emacs window while reading their mail in another, and why shouldn't they want to be able to do that? The video might even have been embedded in one of their mail messages. I think having Emacs be a truly effective browser is a very useful goal btw., especially since Webkit, which is already free software, can do all the hard stuff. The idea of being able to isearch inside the web page of a blog, mark and copy a short program out of a posting, c-x o, and yank it, is really tantalizing. I love the idea of never having to leave emacs again. Of course, one could do something like wrapping the Webkit instances in subprocesses, which might not be awful from an isolation viewpoint. Still, that leaves the question of how to handle the interaction with such a thing. I suppose part of the problem here is that the existing Emacs implementation goes back to an era before such things could have even been contemplated. This might be what one would want out of Emacs but it is not what the current code was built to do. Perry -- Perry E. Metzger perry@piermont.com