From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/5] Add systemd socket launching support. Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 00:47:58 +0000 Message-ID: <20160327004758.GD3061@acm.fritz.box> References: <1459027002-13215-1-git-send-email-matthew@mattleach.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1459039540 15801 80.91.229.3 (27 Mar 2016 00:45:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 00:45:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: Matthew Leach Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 27 01:45:32 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ajype-0006zy-FJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:45:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34184 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajypd-0002cF-9K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:45:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55727) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajypO-0002c9-Ez for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:45:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajypJ-0004Af-FJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:45:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:28585) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ajypJ-00049Y-6K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 20:45:09 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 53167 invoked by uid 3782); 27 Mar 2016 00:45:06 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p579E8C8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.158.140.139]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 01:45:06 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 6343 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Mar 2016 00:47:58 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1459027002-13215-1-git-send-email-matthew@mattleach.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:202271 Archived-At: Hello, Matthew. On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 09:16:37PM +0000, Matthew Leach wrote: > Systemd has the ability to create a socket, launch a daemon upon > connection to that socket and hand over the socket to the new process > to handle. In Emacs' case, we can delay the start of the Emacs daemon > until emacsclient is called upon a socket. Can we really? What's the purpose of such a delay? [ .... ] > Feedback & comments welcome! Systemd is a system initialisation program, one of several available. It is highly controversial, and it is fairly obvious that one of its aims is to subvert GNU's central position in the GNU/Linux system. One of its methods of proliferation is to persuade maintainers to code in direct dependencies on systemd, thus imposing itself on anybody wishing to run the program. (Witness Gnome.) Emacs is a core GNU product, and should remain equally accessible to all GNU users. Emacs should not be talking directly to init systems. There are perfectly good, portable system level interfaces for talking to sockets, and Emacs should restrict itself to using them. Should your patch be accepted, it would lead to an Emacs version specific to an initialisation system, a degree of fragmentation we've not had before, as far as I know. And the idea of making systemd dependency a default for building Emacs seems somewhat on the far side of acceptability. My vote is for not putting initialisation system specific code into Emacs. > Thanks, > Matt -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).