From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:04:26 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20160307210426.GA4539@thyrsus.com> References: <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457384700 5376 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 21:05:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:05:00 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 22:04:54 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2Kk-0004kQ-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 22:04:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58558 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2Kj-00084T-O9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:04:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46935) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2KO-0007jd-Gl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:04:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2KK-0005Dt-6V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:04:32 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:59112 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2KJ-0005DY-PY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:04:27 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F2C2113A0476; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:04:26 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201073 Archived-At: Nikolaus Rath : > On Mar 07 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> I want to choose the path that works for the core developers, and > >> will make Emacs more welcoming to new contributors. > > > > It is IMO a grave mistake to remove parts of our development process > > just because they need to be learned by new contributors. The result > > will be increased burden on the shoulders of those who review the > > submissions, due to the need to coach them, catch their mistakes, ask > > for re-submissions, etc. > > When I submitted my first Emacs patch, I was astonished when I was asked > to re-submit with my commit message essentially duplicated in the > ChangeLog. > > How can it be an increased burden if reviewers have to review just one > thing (the commit message) instead of two (commit message and > ChangeLog)? This +1000 ChangeLogs are *absurd* under present-day conditions. They are functional only as a kind of tribal commitment signal. -- Eric S. Raymond