From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: text-quoting-style Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 18:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: <20150901183545.GA1997@acm.fritz.box> References: <20150829155959.GA20484@acm.fritz.box> <20150830131613.GA2724@acm.fritz.box> <55E3F447.4050005@cs.ucla.edu> <20150831201343.GB2280@acm.fritz.box> <55E4C724.3060108@cs.ucla.edu> <20150901124756.GB2362@acm.fritz.box> <55E5D1E6.9040003@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441132510 30046 80.91.229.3 (1 Sep 2015 18:35:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 18:35:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 01 20:34:58 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWqOX-000436-9f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:34:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56784 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWqOW-0003C9-HC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:34:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49518) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWqOL-0003Bx-08 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:34:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWqOF-0001lM-W3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:34:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:37743) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWqOF-0001kV-MI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 14:34:39 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 82381 invoked by uid 3782); 1 Sep 2015 18:34:38 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p579E99BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [87.158.153.187]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:34:37 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 2261 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Sep 2015 18:35:45 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55E5D1E6.9040003@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189411 Archived-At: Hello, Paul On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:27:18AM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> It's what Emacs does now, and it works well enough. And the basic idea > >> >isn't a new principle: Emacs has done it for decades for many ASCII > >> >characters, e.g., HT. So it is not a problem in practice. > > It will be a problem in practice. It will by lying about what character > > in the buffer the glyph on the screen represents. > Again, there's nothing new here: Emacs has been "lying" in that way for decades > for HT and for several other ASCII characters, and it works in practice. Pure sophistry. > > It will be ambiguous: seeing a ' on the screen leaves it doubtful > > what the corresponding character in the buffer is. Current uses of > > display tables aren't used to confuse users. > That's easily enough fixed. I installed the attached patch, which uses shadow > glyphs for quote substitutions in ASCII-only displays. I don't know what shadow glyphs are, and don't particularly care - they're irrelevant. As I've said more times than I can count, the problem is that curly quotes are used in help buffers, messages, etc., not the way they get displayed. I solved that problem by introducing `text-quoting-style', and you have reintroduced the problem by removing `text-quoting-style'. Please come up with an actual solution, not an irrelevance. Or else put `text-quoting-style' back again. > If you prefer underline or some other glyph face on your console please > feel free to change the code. > >> text-quoting-style doesn't do anything for info files, or > >> for other text files containing curved quotes. > > That's an argument for an additional facility for Info not one for > > getting rid of `text-quoting-style', unless the replacement can do > > the job of `text-quoting-style'. > The additional facility I proposed would work for info, and would also work for > *Help* buffers and diagnostics For what value of "work"? Will it enable the quoting behaviour to be configured to be the same as in Emacs-24.5? It not, it's no good. >and would render text-quoting-style unnecessary. `text-quoting-style' is necessary. Please put it back, or replace it with something which works properly. [ patch read and snipped ]. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).