From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:17:15 +0000 Message-ID: <20150818171715.GD2262@acm.fritz.box> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817173551.GB2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D29EA6.2020009@cs.ucla.edu> <20150818103921.GA2262@acm.fritz.box> <55D36132.1020900@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439918200 9834 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 17:16:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:16:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 19:16:31 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkUu-0005RL-S2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:16:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58546 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkUt-0002sz-Tk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:16:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50677) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkUo-0002rA-0i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:16:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkUk-0000DK-1P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:16:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:14575) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRkUj-0000D2-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:16:17 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 72647 invoked by uid 3782); 18 Aug 2015 17:16:16 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A50C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.80.194]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:16:16 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 15480 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Aug 2015 17:17:15 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55D36132.1020900@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188898 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 09:45:38AM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Sorry, you've lost me. Which philosophical issue would that be? > It's illustrated by your next comment: > > you're conflating the two different issues of non-ascii characters > > and non-working characters. > We disagree about this. They're not orthogonal issues. They're so closely > related that they're almost the same issue. Well, as I said, I edit texts with non-ascii characters frequently, and don't experience any particular difficulty with them. Having to type in a decimal/hex code for a non-working character (or, even worse, having to look up an input method for it) just stops me in my tracks. An example is when I reply to Óscar, "Ó" being outside my working character set. > Emacs currently makes it harder to deal with non-ASCII and/or > non-working characters than it could. Could you give an example of this (pertaining, preferably, to non-ascii working characters)? Thinking about it, maybe having to use Latin keys in lots of bindings when ones keyboard's preferred layout is non-Latin could be quite tiresome. But I've never seen anybody complaining about this. > Restricting our source code to ASCII and/or working characters has > helped us put our heads in the sand about the problem. Whatever problem that might be, the solution surely cannot be artificially to inflict it on ourselves. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).