From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:39:21 +0000 Message-ID: <20150818103921.GA2262@acm.fritz.box> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817173551.GB2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D29EA6.2020009@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439894346 32574 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 10:39:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 18 12:38:59 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZReI7-00060T-41 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:38:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55615 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZReI6-00026y-9D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:38:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZReHm-00026E-9i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:38:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZReHh-0002Tu-9l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:38:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:31475) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZReHg-0002T4-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 83394 invoked by uid 3782); 18 Aug 2015 10:38:23 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A50C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.80.194]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:38:22 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 2513 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Aug 2015 10:39:21 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55D29EA6.2020009@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188867 Archived-At: Hello again, Paul. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 07:55:34PM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > What I object to is_non-working_ characters - characters which appear > > on nobody's keyboard (see Bastien's question about typing curly quotes) > > and are problematic to display (See Eli's recent post, for example). > As for the philosophical issue, I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree. Sorry, you've lost me. Which philosophical issue would that be? > In my experience, hackers prefer to scratch the itches they feel > personally. Discouraging non-ASCII characters even in relatively > innocuous contexts like doc strings and diagnostics is connected to > putting off the task of making it easier to edit text with these > characters. Again, you're conflating the two different issues of non-ascii characters and non-working characters. These issues are separate, and don't influence eachother. Imposing the non-working characters left and right curly quotes on Emacs hackers will surely make no difference as to how easy or difficult it is to edit Russian, or Greek, or Japanese or Korean in Emacs. Or am I missing something? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).