From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4e23cd0 4/5: * mail/rmail.el (rmail-show-message-1): When displaying a mime message, Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 10:48:47 +0000 Message-ID: <20150408104847.GA4252@acm.fritz.box> References: <83mw2mn2no.fsf@gnu.org> <5521359D.2000509@yandex.ru> <83fv8emvgq.fsf@gnu.org> <55219139.8040507@yandex.ru> <83oan2l4pk.fsf@gnu.org> <5521B811.8070603@yandex.ru> <83d23hlmia.fsf@gnu.org> <20150407165131.GA2600@acm.fritz.box> <552486A4.2020803@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428490156 19136 80.91.229.3 (8 Apr 2015 10:49:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 10:49:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 08 12:49:07 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YfnXe-0003x2-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:49:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52009 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YfnXe-0002mA-0J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:49:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47499) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YfnXY-0002m3-Rt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:49:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YfnXT-00077D-Rn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:49:00 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:39516 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YfnXT-00076w-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 06:48:55 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 42398 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Apr 2015 10:48:54 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9518A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.81.138.5]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 12:48:52 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 4525 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Apr 2015 10:48:47 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <552486A4.2020803@yandex.ru> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185144 Archived-At: Hello, Dmitry. On Wed, Apr 08, 2015 at 04:38:44AM +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 04/07/2015 07:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Git is a monster to learn, taking an order of magnitude longer than to > > learn Mercurial or Bazaar, and a greater jump still from learning CVS. > When trying to use Bazaar, I've consistently been put off by the lack of > transparency of its data model. Or at least that was the feeling. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "data model", but my feeling was similar, combined with the feeling it didn't matter that much - most things just worked. > > However, a lot of people like git, possibly for reasons similar to the > > ones why we dislike it. > That's possible. And like mentioned by Andreas, maybe also for the > similar reasons some people (e.g. myself) like Emacs. I don't think think that's a valid comparison. In Emacs, you chose what level of complexity you work at, and you can learn it gradually. At a basic level, you can work Emacs with self-insert keys, arrow keys, and six or seven essential commands (C-g, C-x C-f, C-x C-s, C-x C-c, C-/, and one or two others). All these commands are "simple", in the sense they don't require you to specify obscure options, or anything like that. In git, the complexity seems gratuitous - the user is exposed to the maximum level of detail possible rather than the minimum required to use it productively. This can be seen by comparing it with Mercurial, which has the same level of capability explained in a single man page of ~300kB, compared with git's man pages of over 2MB. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).