From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 13:56:36 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20141205185636.GH3120@thyrsus.com> References: <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <83388v6hsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsftgd5.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417805872 18660 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 18:57:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:57:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Karl Fogel , Eli Zaretskii , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 19:57:47 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwy4Z-0007zB-7Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:57:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwy4Y-0004YY-TE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:57:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37307) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwy3a-00037L-Di for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:56:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwy3W-0002as-5A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:56:46 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5]:57076 helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwy3R-0002Yw-7U; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:56:37 -0500 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 78B8A3836F4; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 13:56:36 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 71.162.243.5 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178987 Archived-At: Glenn Morris : > Karl Fogs wrote: > > > That site & page are maintained by the FSF -- they're not in the Emacs > > tree anywhere. In other words, whatever the procedures are for > > improving the Emacs home page (and creating a developer welcome page), > > they are completely different from the procedures for improving the > > Emacs code. So, yay, now I have to learn *two* contribution paths. > > The http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ Emacs web pages are maintained in > CVS. Oh, holy jumping *fuck*. And you still wonder why you can't get more help maintaining them? There may be other reasons, but this is a sufficient one. CVS, like Texinfo and far too many of this project's inheritances from ancient times, is a gigantic neon sign that says to new developers WE *LIVE* TO INFLICT PROCESS PAIN ON YOU. Let me expand on that. It not only says WE *LIVE* TO INFLICT PROCESS PAIN ON YOU, it also says GO AWAY, WE'RE STUCK IN 1990 AND WE LIKE IT HERE. Well, at least I can partly fix this. I'll get with Bob Proulx about converting the repo. Eventually it should almost certainly move into the source tree, but that's pending the big redesign of our documentation structure. -- Eric S. Raymond