From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Barry Warsaw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Version naming Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:31:54 -0400 Organization: Damn Crazy Followers of the Horn Message-ID: <20141016173154.1faa67a0@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <8738ap3qgq.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <20141016095111.631bf393@anarchist.wooz.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/JxG=45QSXtdINbbbfjgt8Yl"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413495162 30595 80.91.229.3 (16 Oct 2014 21:32:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:32:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 16 23:32:35 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xesex-00028r-2r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 23:32:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54104 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xesew-0008IS-KP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:32:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xeseb-0008H0-Ts for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XeseV-0002jg-Ot for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:32:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.wooz.org ([216.15.33.194]:36987) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XeseV-0002jX-J5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wooz.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D170110804BE for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail.wooz.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (carnies.wooz.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8hF1j3aERNSr for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from anarchist.wooz.org (anarchist.wooz.org [192.168.11.111]) by mail.wooz.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB552108002F for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:31:55 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.24; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 216.15.33.194 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175490 Archived-At: --Sig_/JxG=45QSXtdINbbbfjgt8Yl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Oct 16, 2014, at 04:01 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >But you only get to do that by lying to dpkg and pretending that python2 >and python3 are just different packages rather than different versions >of the package. So you need to know beforehand which sets of packages >people may want to keep together. I'm not sure what you mean here, or whether Python's case is relevant to Emacs, so I'll just mention the following and then re-lurk. :) Each major Python version that Debian supports is a separate binary package, e.g. python2.6, python2.7, python3.3, python3.4, etc. and that makes sense, since each is an entirely different upstream release. I don't see that as "lying to dpkg"; for Python, it's true. However, they are all co-installable, so you can have any combination of whatever still-supported versions are in the archive. The previous comment about only caring about Python 2.7 is because all older versions are retired upstream, and thus removed from Debian Jessie. (Anything Python 3 older than 3.4 is currently in the same boat, but when Python 3.5 is available, it's likely that both 3.4 and 3.5 will be supported at the same time for a while. No infrastructure changes will be needed to enable that.) Of course, "python" (i.e /usr/bin/python) and "python3" (/usr/bin/python3) give you just one of those, whichever is the default version for Debian. However, you can always also just run "python3.4" or "python3.5" or whateve= r. I guess that's the analogy to "emacs" currently giving me 24.3.1 but being able to run emacs23 if I wanted to... which I can. :) The real trick to co-installability is that third party modules need to be installable for all supported Pythons, and actually installed for all installed Pythons. Meaning, if package foo is available for 3.4, and then = you install Python 3.5, foo will magically also be available for 3.5 too. Where upstream got involved was redesigning the import system to support co-installability of modules for multiple versions of Python (PEPs 3147 and 3149 for the interested Pythonista). When Pythons earlier than 2.7 were st= ill around, Debian had to go jump through hoops (spelled "symlink farm") to make that work, and it was a fragile hack. Yet another reason to love Python 3.= :) It's also true that Debian has two different Python "stacks", one for Pytho= n 2 and another for Python 3. That means if foo supports both, then you will h= ave a python-foo and a python3-foo binary package, but you will generally not h= ave a python3.4-foo and a python3.5-foo. And in fact both binary packages are usually created from the same upstream and Debian source package. This mak= es sense for Python because we do hope to some day remove Python 2, and in Ubu= ntu demote Python 2 to universe. There's also no need to install the Python 2 stack if you're just using Python 3. Anyway, I'm off-topic for Emacs, so I'll stop here, except to add that Emacs 24.3 works really great for me on Debuntu. Kudos to the maintainers. /me waves to Rob. Cheers, -Barry --Sig_/JxG=45QSXtdINbbbfjgt8Yl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUQDlKAAoJEBJutWOnSwa/N7oP/2xIzygq0fYXavI18JVh2k0v pYbyQ0idPZ/WgTKU8la55cyRqqZj4HwEnCEEtYMCZ3jHpPMiCwGwD7qdY2TaSJRf 2G0BJHVdqI0Nc1mGsTSVr6JUhtAZlJPsSRrxBll1nHXvtzPwbi9xXC15UVzBTE4Q 1sGXn/eifSN/ADQmHfOJ/MR5EqnsYBXzOrXgqc3zdpxocMwOS+sv2xrd9fHxS9Ed 190BqBV0ZamvfGZVQac0pkCuHC8G7rq8jY69no2Z4F+AQpx/Pe3p7VNYCqQ7RvVO wLt5/aaZSPdMt75YOFpjtQNKATtymg09xf9OZWrZyYXVg/NaJh4OiaNclycN6mGE d2BW4FNgjqgef19W6H3ePDyyMmNLbpkX1owIoQi3e47DwsJNPtCHzCgcx5dqcthM ZPuxX+2nFXAn1G/+SpWgvJHG3OrvlGR4qMKTpr6rrME5KUHZDcLZkwHUZ6L2EMM1 ryPLMy8IMdvuRSjn/SLhCp91FchzIwEPT9IONts5ND5Z92RtbW1bVrd5ZDLq4ArT Q3Fx/RZskl+4Rs2PBWcNZsD/SmQLbQs6sIAGBNInO+CoylaqUeayD0uZBps+zHPL 9JNng575P6N3PU+TpfZUVq6qTszD16MOHzc+zr+jg90znlBBXl3QgFUlBM1+qrWp IRo1iHMe+eaUPDLIhA1j =jKeD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/JxG=45QSXtdINbbbfjgt8Yl--