From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: quotation marks [was Re: TUTORIAL.de updated] Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:49:22 +0000 Message-ID: <20120120074922.GA3095@acm.acm> References: <20120118.161204.348826368.wl@gnu.org> <20248.15413.907023.894588@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <4x1uqv4pbx.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> <056566D61BA5441E860782777E736F44@us.oracle.com> <4F18A26A.1020402@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1327045771 19117 80.91.229.12 (20 Jan 2012 07:49:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:49:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Ulrich Mueller' , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 20 08:49:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ro9Dw-00084R-Uj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:49:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44645 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ro9Dw-0001zx-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:49:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39243) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ro9Ds-0001zp-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:49:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ro9Dp-0007JJ-Uo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:49:20 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:60567 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ro9Dp-0007J6-L1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:49:17 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 41692 invoked by uid 3782); 20 Jan 2012 07:49:12 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9556A0B.dip.t-dialin.net [217.85.106.11]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:49:10 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3233 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Jan 2012 07:49:22 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F18A26A.1020402@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 193.149.48.1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147760 Archived-At: Hello, Paul. On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 03:08:26PM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 01/19/12 09:22, Drew Adams wrote: > > `...' is an Emacs doc & UI convention, not simply a "coding standard". > For user interfaces it would be better if Emacs quoted > ?like this? or ?like this? (i.e., using directed > quote marks) in the typical case where these quote marks > are supported. Reading your mail across an SSH link with my ISP, I see these quote marks as an inverted "?". The same in mutt, where I am currently typing, the same when I load it into Emacs. > Quoting `like this' is no longer appropriate, since modern displays > typically don't render ` and ' symmetrically, and it confuses new > users when Emacs gives unusual interpretations to ` and '. I think if ` and ' confuse new users, they perhaps should direct their modest talents to a less demanding editor. ;-) Does anybody really have trouble with a new style of quoting marks, assuming that they can actually see them? I never had trouble with, for example, « and » (apologies if anybody can't see these. They're double angle bracket quote marks.) I run Emacs on a Linux tty. It's always been a requirement of Emacs that it run OK in this environment. > One way to address this would be to prefer directed > quote marks within the Emacs source code; the surrounding > technology should recognize these quotes and do the right > thing when displaying diagnostics on ASCII-only platforms. What about displaying Elisp source code on ASCII-only platforms? > Use of ` for Lisp backquotes, shell backquotes, etc., would > be undisturbed, of course. The only change would be for > when we're quoting something in English text. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).