From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs learning curve Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:57:00 +0200 Message-ID: <201008021657.01254.tassilo@member.fsf.org> References: <10954D02-E217-49F3-8824-757DA34074AB@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280761040 10330 80.91.229.12 (2 Aug 2010 14:57:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , Tom To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 02 16:57:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfwS2-0007kt-Fy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:57:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39358 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfwS1-0003N7-PM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:57:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43133 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OfwRv-0003Mr-DL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfwRu-0001lH-Bp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:57:07 -0400 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:19633) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OfwRs-0001ka-8z; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:57:04 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3E5781D0CB; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:57:02 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28925-06; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:57:02 +0200 (CEST) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender noch tassilo@member.fsf.org Original-Received: from tsdh.localnet (tsdh.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.67.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39B07781D0CC; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:57:02 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.35-rc6-git6; KDE/4.4.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: X-Face: `TY6r/ws=N5uqO1E`M=Sups<}n%T[E^o_?MJj< =?utf-8?q?O4j=265ljV6lU=7DcXU7oftH=26/x=5F=7EK=7B=26zv9=7D=0A=09sB=7D5/Ea=5B?= =?utf-8?q?hU=7BCS=23=3F=3F0=3F=3Fn?=@sX+ft]?{(l?, mp"a`u List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128119 Archived-At: On Monday 02 August 2010 15:26:54 Juanma Barranquero wrote: > > The idea (for me anyway) is not to lure new users (I have given up > > the hope to understand what they need/want a lot time ago), but just > > to make Emacs better. And following standards (be they protocols, > > libraries, terminology, behavior) is generally a good thing. So the > > only reason not to follow standards is when we have a better story. > > In the case of yank/paste and point/cursor, I don't think our story > > is that much better: it's more a historical accident. > > Wouldn't that be an argument to use window/pane too, instead of > frame/window? That was the first thing that came in my mind, too. But in contrast to copy/cut/paste, current and "modern" names are not disjunctive, so there is no possibility to provide aliases for the old names. One major problem I see with those modernization ideas is that it would make it even harder to write packages that work on all emacs flavours. Either you'd need to define lots of compatibility code or use the old name aliases. Neither of those alternatives looks desirable to me, and in any case it makes life harder for potential new developers. Bye, Tassilo