From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Please restore `make-obsolete''s functionality. Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:41:45 +0000 Message-ID: <20100727194145.GA2280@muc.de> References: <20100726202840.GB2993@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280259051 28629 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2010 19:30:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 27 21:30:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdprV-0002Ez-5u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:30:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53117 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OdprU-0000ve-4n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:30:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45094 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OdprN-0000uB-Pn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:30:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdprM-0006E6-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:30:41 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:4279 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdprM-0006Dn-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:30:40 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 18215 invoked by uid 3782); 27 Jul 2010 19:30:37 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E52785.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.39.133]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:30:36 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3322 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Jul 2010 19:41:45 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127884 Archived-At: Hi, Stefan, On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:55:33PM +0200, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Please can we remove this Cleverness? `make-obsolete' also has to work > > on OLD code (sometimes very old code) written when WHEN was &optional. > It's still optional, although the byte-compiler doesn't know it so > it complains. Stefan, the following is a lie - a barefaced lie: "cc-cmds.el:326:2:Warning: make-obsolete called with 2 arguments, but requires 3". It's a mendacious attempt, by deceit, to force hackers into doing what's considered good for them. It's not something which happened accidentally; code was deliberately inserted so as to hide WHEN's optionality. What effect does this have? I can only answer for me, but... It's a drag. It makes the maintenance of my project less fun. It raises feelings of guilt and inadequacy in the face of the juggernaut that Emacs has become. Will CC Mode still work without crashing if a user stumbles over one of these `make-obsolete's? I know the answer now, but I didn't between when this change was done and yesterday. Please can't we have the REAL argument list back in the byte compiler? > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).