From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:33:29 +0000 Message-ID: <20100314093329.GA1362@muc.de> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83pr371rl2.fsf@gnu.org> <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268560366 19175 80.91.229.12 (14 Mar 2010 09:52:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 09:52:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, cyd@stupidchicken.com, cloos@jhcloos.com, rms@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 14 10:52:39 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqkUw-0007xH-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:52:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50178 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqkUv-0003We-PT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:52:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NqkUm-0003WZ-6L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:52:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39780 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NqkUk-0003WQ-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:52:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqkUi-0004L5-9V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:52:26 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:1038 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NqkUh-0004Kd-W3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:52:24 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 2960 invoked by uid 3782); 14 Mar 2010 09:25:40 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pD9E5031C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.229.3.28]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:25:37 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 1650 invoked by uid 1000); 14 Mar 2010 09:33:29 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121942 Archived-At: Hi, everybody. On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 01:16:08PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > The problem is with how ``convenient'' is decided. I suspect most > > users nowadays will say that having the scroll bar on the right is > > the most ``convenient''. > They may, but I suspect they can't actually say why... I can. On the right, the scroll bar doesn't get in the way, at least not very much. On the left, it is very close to where you're mostly inserting/deleting/reading text, and acts like a dripping tap, a sounding foghorn, a nagging wife, some illocatable rotting fish. It takes over your mind, reducing your concentration on what you're doing. > The Emacs' position, whether one agrees with it or not, is actually > based on some reasoning. I think it's based on the assumption that a scroll bar is an essential part of editing that nobody can bear to be without; that it'll be getting used so often that nobody could possibly object to it. I think these assumptions warrant examination, particularly under Emacs. > -Miles -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany) , who uses (scroll-bar-mode -1) when inside a GUI.