From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ehud Karni" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.bidi Subject: Re: [emacs-bidi] Mixed L2R and R2L paragraphs and horizontal scroll Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:49 +0200 Organization: Mivtach-Simon Insurance agencies Message-ID: <201002051221.o15CLmVW016971@beta.mvs.co.il> References: <83tyu3iu6b.fsf@gnu.org> <201002011400.o11E0jMQ007420@beta.mvs.co.il> <83vdeghfqg.fsf@gnu.org> <201002012205.o11M5Sci011809@beta.mvs.co.il> <83k4uvh09o.fsf@gnu.org> <201002031310.o13DAqXd019253@beta.mvs.co.il> <40314.130.55.118.19.1265230948.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <201002041621.o14GL6w5006928@beta.mvs.co.il> <833a1ghjrj.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: ehud@unix.mvs.co.il NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1265372686 16620 80.91.229.12 (5 Feb 2010 12:24:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:24:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: eliz@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 13:24:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NdNEk-0004Gr-U5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:24:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45459 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NdNEk-0003Ua-An for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:24:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NdNCF-00024T-Mn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:22:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49918 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NdNCE-000246-Tv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NdNCC-0003fX-LE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [193.16.147.12] (port=60213 helo=unix.mvs.co.il) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NdNCB-0003eb-K7; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:22:00 -0500 Original-Received: from beta.mvs.co.il (beta [10.253.0.3]) by unix.mvs.co.il (8.13.8/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o15CLr0V018093; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:54 +0200 Original-Received: from beta.mvs.co.il (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beta.mvs.co.il (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o15CLrsQ016974; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:53 +0200 Original-Received: (from root@localhost) by beta.mvs.co.il (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id o15CLmVW016971; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:49 +0200 In-reply-to: <833a1ghjrj.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:40:32 +0200) X-Mailer: Emacs 21.3.1 rmail (send-msg 1.109) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120934 gmane.emacs.bidi:529 Archived-At: On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:40:32 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Please! Newspapers don't have truncated and continued lines, they > have newlines between every two lines. With newlines, the bidi > display will show exactly what you (and every other Hebrew reader) > expect. I think you got it wrong here. Newspaper article are written a whole paragraph without new lines on a wide screen and then reflowed to the column width. You can do it with any word processor, and change the width when you print and get the same behavior. > > e.g. http://www.cancer.org.il/template_site2/default.asp?textSearch=&maincat=15&catid=368&pageid=3331&innerparentId=4361 > > look for "nutrition and physical" and see how the English title is > > broken into 2 lines and is right justified. > That's exactly what I see in bidi Emacs, when there's a newline > between "cancer" and "treatment". THIS IS NOT THE USE-CASE WE ARE > DISCUSSING IN THIS THREAD. That use-case works like you want. You keep saying "when there's a newline" and "use fill-paragraph" because of your technical constraint (explained in another email). I propose the following: use a virtual "right-margin-goal-column" (a real one if given, and if not it is the screen width), do a virtual `fill-paragraph' on the line, and do the bidi processing on the result, BUT without inserting any real new-lines. It has the shortcoming of not going exactly up to right edge (or left edge for R2L paragraph), but it will have the benefit of not breaking words and allowing normal reading for long line with embedding text of the opposite direction. It does not solve or even relate to the scrolling strategy. Ehud. -- Ehud Karni Tel: +972-3-7966-561 /"\ Mivtach - Simon Fax: +972-3-7976-561 \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign Insurance agencies (USA) voice mail and X Against HTML Mail http://www.mvs.co.il FAX: 1-815-5509341 / \ GnuPG: 98EA398D Better Safe Than Sorry