From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Johan =?iso-8859-1?q?Myr=E9en?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: line-move-visual Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 21:12:21 +0300 Message-ID: <200907092112.21879.jem@iki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247198023 12795 80.91.229.12 (10 Jul 2009 03:53:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:53:43 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 10 05:53:36 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MP7Az-00086G-3A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:53:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43361 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MP7Ay-0007cl-BM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:53:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MOyix-0008WH-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MOyiw-0008T9-2R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=36547 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MOyiv-0008Sz-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:52:01 -0400 Original-Received: from nblzone-227-198.nblnetworks.fi ([83.145.227.198]:2226 helo=puppy.toomanyhops.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MOyiu-0008Gw-Sn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:52:01 -0400 Original-Received: from pandora.localnet (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:1ff:1:21f:d0ff:fe51:b7f6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puppy.toomanyhops.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32FE13205 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2009 21:15:46 +0300 (EEST) User-Agent: KMail/1.11.4 (Linux/2.6.30-gentoo-r2; KDE/4.2.4; x86_64; ; ) Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-Greylist: delayed 2362 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at monty-python; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:51:51 EDT X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:53:27 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112267 Archived-At: Could somebody please explain to me what the idea behind the new concept of "visual lines" in Emacs is? Emacs has always been a "line-oriented" editor, i.e. the buffer consists of logical lines. These lines can occasionally wrap so that they spill over to the next visual line, but the main concept is still the logical line. This has been the mindset of Emacs users since the dawn of time. I was shocked to find out that this doesn't seem to be true anymore: by default C-n and C-p do not move to the next and previous logical lines, but instead place the cursor on the next or previous visible line. I find this totally counterintuitive. If I press C-n five times, I expect to find the cursor five (logical) lines down, regardless if they happen to be wrapped or not. It is not consistent either: why don't C-a and C-e then move to the beginning and end of the visual line. Or why does C-k kill until the end of the logical line, and not the visual line? Yes, I know the old behaviour can be restored: after some digging I found out about the line-move-visual variable. Couldn't the default be nil instead of t? Please do not forget what Gnu Emacs stands for: Generally Not Used, Except by Middle-Aged Computer Scientists. With changes like this you risk alienating the few of us that are left. Johan Myreen Emacs user since the mid 1980s