From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improve access to documentation in Info format Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2025 04:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <20086.7605557264$1735957286@news.gmane.org> References: <87ser8c230.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86ser87rut.fsf@gnu.org> <871pygyjqt.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87zfl2mhoz.fsf@gmail.com> <878qruqm8w.fsf@gmail.com> <871pxk8o1e.fsf@gmail.com> <67788718.170a0220.116636.4451SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <8734hzs6yy.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32943"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Suhail Singh Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 04 03:21:20 2025 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tTtmx-0008NE-Nd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Jan 2025 03:21:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTtm2-0007Ju-P2; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 21:20:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTtly-0007Ii-15 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 21:20:19 -0500 Original-Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tTtlt-0007RU-WB; Fri, 03 Jan 2025 21:20:17 -0500 Original-Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc7b-49.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.123.49]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CBCDD00063; Sat, 4 Jan 2025 04:20:03 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1735957203; bh=TYj0VRu5rPZixARiISPzuNbhuhlKJfHa5RPi1K6S0K4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=2aarNZdPo3dIkOPOHQP8icWXsu0uiKg+rbSXZ2pRAOYeKuoG4dcpWm/txvUrPXPsQ V8pjXPKcgFBAf1/Fcbl8xMFJV+rFFudLZeZpb0cDPAr+gAvSj+igy3wbeaYbsDGcil axzg+noN5YAS45Ukef1+8XPSHo6XwC5HVscJGATPnM0e07QAf4X1aNx0aK/UqQ4wf0 jH9eyK2uORZGDp1FGlBfwBSZq2YQYr0LIvUIgB8GAu0iYb3gBnKbPV2voDRkgRqEPS y4ZefUL2Yf2SUX8LI10fpsxOzYhBimVH2a25kEC2r4z0k+00XT99HvwDtfaETorctm +DhVrWOu+nSKhgSz/EdC//BjWAEG/W04Mz0dLQQL3KMRtqUFEV2P3v02dSPeXH34nD kJdSXn0075AxPXGeUuuW8RkHyBpXmrw3dCM481zeOSaYUrGRLuM2KyWtYpZAMbobA1 4Tj0ukEU0aXjkf/RxthWPVhd+tFXBuPHSRrmU2bNKmuDZkxS+U1a7Yk0dJRSv6q8Uq eEcmHH7/+ZULAqMal2miQh5v823EdkPYgrV5XzcpVJeG0+Dqd06KYfoyMFFL31eEX/ 8iJQXeAl07sK3S2a/farYyU0Wl/NZ3NvwA0h/MQfuRAtPGQoHvQe/NM+OnbDqyQhgJ z3nsQq1IAsJeBULmK9L9UHvI= In-Reply-To: <8734hzs6yy.fsf@gmail.com> (Suhail Singh's message of "Fri, 03 Jan 2025 20:28:21 -0500") Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlH Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327645 Archived-At: Suhail Singh writes: > Bj=C3=B6rn Bidar writes: > >> If we want to improve info in general, Emacs package.el repositories are >> not the best option. >> It should be easy to package the missing manuals for the major package >> formats and possibly provide packages for other distribution which don't >> include the manuals. The last option would be to provide download >> options for the info files. > > While you provide other options, it's not clear why ELPA repositories > aren't a good fit. ELPA repositories are platform-agnostic and would > provide access to Info manuals wherever Emacs runs. Additionally, Emacs > provides one of the better Info readers, and implicit in the fact that > we are discussing this on emacs-devel is the assumption that the > intended users are Emacs users. Wherever Emacs runs not everyone uses Emacs. Application agnostic solutions would improve info usage in general and not only Emacs. > Improving the existing package definitions in the "major package > formats", though helpful, is orthogonal in my opinion. Providing access > to Info manuals via ELPA repositories in no way prevents these efforts. > However, emacs-devel may not be the best place to discuss such efforts. Proving these manuals would require resources, which would be used only Emacs user would benefit from. Packaging manuals which are generated into t= exinfo would require more infrastructure which would have to run to generate these manuals besides makeinfo. The build environment for these manuals would have to be provided by GNU to generate from source to info files. Also because package.el isn't for the distribution of manuals or other files which can be used with modes. I don't know how generic topics are handled across mailinglists, especially not when a problem is not specific to the topic at hand i.e. Emacs. >> Fixing the license of the manuals would also go a long way of including >> these manuals. Trying to use the resources of the FSF to reach out and >> try to rectify such long standing issues would help very much. >> Such things are not possible for individual contributors I'd say. > > Do you have examples of manuals whose existing license constraints would > hinder their inclusion in NonGNU ELPA? Not in NonGNU as the GNU itself is the creator of (most) of these manuals which created the problems that the GFDL has.