Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[dhruva]

Hello,
 I have been using the bzr repository of emacs from: http://bzr.notengoamigos.org/emacs/trunk/. I am using the development version of bzr and things have improved in terms of performance. I have also been lurking on the #bzr IRC channel and see a lot of positive vibes and focus on improving performance.
 At this juncture, I request (once again) to the emacs maintainers to request savannah hackers to setup a read only bzr repository for emacs. I did chat on the #savannah on IRC and was told that the project maintainers need to make a request and they can easily do it.
 The main reason I am making this request is that connectivity to "bzr.notengoamigos.org" is slow and affects the perception of bzr user. From 2 days, my connection is breaking mid way and prevents me from pulling changes. I am looking for something more reliable.

with best regards,
dhruva



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Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Stefan Monnier]

>  I have been using the bzr repository of emacs from:
>  http://bzr.notengoamigos.org/emacs/trunk/.  I am using the development
>  version of bzr and things have improved in terms of
>  performance.  I have also been lurking on the #bzr IRC channel and see
>  a lot of positive vibes and focus on improving performance.

>  At this juncture, I request (once again) to the emacs maintainers to
>  request savannah hackers to setup a read only bzr repository for
>  emacs.  I did chat on the #savannah on IRC and was told that the
>  project maintainers need to make a request and they can easily do it.

>  The main reason I am making this request is that connectivity to
>  "bzr.notengoamigos.org" is slow and affects the perception of bzr
>  user.  From 2 days, my connection is breaking mid way and prevents me
>  from pulling changes.  I am looking for something more reliable.

I've been using a bzr branch for my own local branch and basically use
bzr for everything except "commit to trunk", ever since the
bzr.notengoamigos.org mirror was setup.  Performance of bzr seems OK for
my use nowadays.  I.e. we could switch to bzr "any time".  The main
hurdle for now is that the bzr.notengoamigos.org itself is not quite
good enough and lacks all the merge info from Miles's Arch mirror (it
also lacks the file-move info).

So a new conversion of the CVS repository to bzr is needed that will fix
those problem.  We could switch to bzr as soon as this is done.

As for the speed of bzr.notengoamigos.org, I haven't noticed it being
slow (but then again I update every day or so, and usually at times
when I do other things anyway).  But there's a copy of that branch up on
http://arch.savannah.gnu.org/archives/emacs/bzr/trunk, which any member
of the "emacs" group can update via sftp.


        Stefan

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[René Kyllingstad]

* Stefan Monnier:
>  So a new conversion of the CVS repository to bzr is needed that will fix
>  those problem.  We could switch to bzr as soon as this is done.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world has dismissed bzr as a contender and are
choosing between hg and git, where there is furious development both on the
core and in tools from other interested parties.

The winner seems to be git, and we happen to have a Emacs git repository
with all the information so we're pretty much ready to go.

Sigh.

On the bright side, at least we don't have to use the GNU Hurd kernel
instead of Linux.

Pheeew.


-- René
http://www.google.com/trends?q=bzr,hg,git

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Phil Hagelberg]

René Kyllingstad <listmailemacs@kyllingstad.com> writes:

> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bzr,hg,git

While I don't deny that bzr is less popular than git and mercurial, Git
and Hg are both words with many meanings, while bzr is a unique
term. Notice that of the six top news results shown for "hg" and "git",
only one of them is actually related to a version control system; the
rest are all different meanings for the term.

So linking to that graph is very misleading.

I use git for my personal projects, but I'm looking forward to finally
moving away from CVS. If bzr is ready for Emacs, Emacs is certainly
ready for bzr.

-Phil
http://technomancy.us

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Miles Bader]

Phil Hagelberg <phil@hagelb.org> writes:
> I use git for my personal projects, but I'm looking forward to finally
> moving away from CVS. If bzr is ready for Emacs, Emacs is certainly
> ready for bzr.

Of course what really matter is emacs developers, not "emacs"...

-Miles

-- 
The automobile has not merely taken over the street, it has dissolved the
living tissue of the city.  Its appetite for space is absolutely insatiable;
moving and parked, it devours urban land, leaving the buildings as mere
islands of habitable space in a sea of dangerous and ugly traffic.
[James Marston Fitch, New York Times, 1 May 1960]

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Teemu Likonen]

Phil Hagelberg wrote (2008-09-05 09:57 -0700):

> René Kyllingstad <listmailemacs@kyllingstad.com> writes:
> 
> > http://www.google.com/trends?q=bzr,hg,git
> 
> While I don't deny that bzr is less popular than git and mercurial,
> Git and Hg are both words with many meanings, while bzr is a unique
> term. Notice that of the six top news results shown for "hg" and
> "git", only one of them is actually related to a version control
> system; the rest are all different meanings for the term.
> 
> So linking to that graph is very misleading.

Debian Popularity Contest seems to be better for measuring the 
popularity of DVCS tools. Statistics for bzr, git and hg below.

The number of installs:

    http://tinyurl.com/646j4n [1]

The number of people who use the tool regularly (i.e., run the 
executable files of the .deb package):

    http://tinyurl.com/63ukt6 [2]


-------------
Complete URLs:

[1] http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=git-core%2Cbzr%2Cmercurial&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&from_date=2005-05-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

[2] http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=git-core%2Cbzr%2Cmercurial&show_vote=on&want_legend=on&from_date=2005-05-01&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Phil Hagelberg wrote (2008-09-05 09:57 -0700):
> 
>> René Kyllingstad <listmailemacs@kyllingstad.com> writes:
>>
>>> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bzr,hg,git
>> While I don't deny that bzr is less popular than git and mercurial,
>> Git and Hg are both words with many meanings, while bzr is a unique
>> term. Notice that of the six top news results shown for "hg" and
>> "git", only one of them is actually related to a version control
>> system; the rest are all different meanings for the term.
>>
>> So linking to that graph is very misleading.
> 
> Debian Popularity Contest seems to be better for measuring the 
> popularity of DVCS tools. Statistics for bzr, git and hg below.
> 
> The number of installs:
> 
>     http://tinyurl.com/646j4n [1]
> 
> The number of people who use the tool regularly (i.e., run the 
> executable files of the .deb package):
> 
>     http://tinyurl.com/63ukt6 [2]


What people are included in this graphs? Is it debian users mostly, or?

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Teemu Likonen]

Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote (2008-09-06 14:31 +0200):

> Teemu Likonen wrote:

> > Debian Popularity Contest seems to be better for measuring the 
> > popularity of DVCS tools. Statistics for bzr, git and hg below.

> >     http://tinyurl.com/646j4n [1]

> >     http://tinyurl.com/63ukt6 [2]

> What people are included in this graphs? Is it debian users mostly, or?

Basically it's only Debian users but it may also include some other 
distributions which are based on Debian. I think Ubuntu has their own 
popularity contest system so Ubuntu may not be included in these 
statistics. If user has chosen to participate (the installer asks about 
it) Debian systems send weekly and automatically this package install 
and usage information to Debian servers. For more info:

    http://popcon.debian.org/

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[joakim]

René Kyllingstad <listmailemacs@kyllingstad.com> writes:

> * Stefan Monnier:
>>  So a new conversion of the CVS repository to bzr is needed that will fix
>>  those problem.  We could switch to bzr as soon as this is done.
>
> Meanwhile, the rest of the world has dismissed bzr as a contender and are
> choosing between hg and git, where there is furious development both on the
> core and in tools from other interested parties.
>
> The winner seems to be git, and we happen to have a Emacs git repository
> with all the information so we're pretty much ready to go.

At the same time in corporate space many of us are fighting to not have
to use such atrocities as Visual Sourcesafe, Clearcase and whatnot. Any
somewhat modern SCMS for Emacs will make us unfortunate ones cry with
joy, even subversion.


> Sigh.
>
> On the bright side, at least we don't have to use the GNU Hurd kernel
> instead of Linux.
>
> Pheeew.
>
>
> -- René
> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bzr,hg,git
>
>
-- 
Joakim Verona

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Richard M. Stallman]

The Emacs change logs list one small change that you contributed,
three years ago.  Since you are making no positive contribution, your
only contribution seems to be rancor and harassment.

I do not consider it a problem that my decision displeases you.

Re: Requesting bzr repository of emacs on savannah

[Jason Earl]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>>  I have been using the bzr repository of emacs from:
>>  http://bzr.notengoamigos.org/emacs/trunk/.  I am using the development
>>  version of bzr and things have improved in terms of
>>  performance.  I have also been lurking on the #bzr IRC channel and see
>>  a lot of positive vibes and focus on improving performance.
>
>>  At this juncture, I request (once again) to the emacs maintainers to
>>  request savannah hackers to setup a read only bzr repository for
>>  emacs.  I did chat on the #savannah on IRC and was told that the
>>  project maintainers need to make a request and they can easily do it.
>
>>  The main reason I am making this request is that connectivity to
>>  "bzr.notengoamigos.org" is slow and affects the perception of bzr
>>  user.  From 2 days, my connection is breaking mid way and prevents me
>>  from pulling changes.  I am looking for something more reliable.
>
> I've been using a bzr branch for my own local branch and basically use
> bzr for everything except "commit to trunk", ever since the
> bzr.notengoamigos.org mirror was setup.  Performance of bzr seems OK
> for my use nowadays.  I.e. we could switch to bzr "any time".  The
> main hurdle for now is that the bzr.notengoamigos.org itself is not
> quite good enough and lacks all the merge info from Miles's Arch
> mirror (it also lacks the file-move info).

I'm really sorry that I haven't made any more progress on this front.  I
just graduated, and that took up a much larger amount of time than I
would have guessed (which is probably why I hadn't graduated earlier :).

I have been experimenting with several ways of getting a better bzr
repository for Emacs, but I just haven't had time to track down the bugs
in the import process that I have run into.

Of course, if anyone else is interested in taking a crack that this
problem I would certainly appreciate the help :).

> So a new conversion of the CVS repository to bzr is needed that will
> fix those problem.  We could switch to bzr as soon as this is done.
> 
> As for the speed of bzr.notengoamigos.org, I haven't noticed it being
> slow (but then again I update every day or so, and usually at times
> when I do other things anyway).  But there's a copy of that branch up on
> http://arch.savannah.gnu.org/archives/emacs/bzr/trunk, which any member
> of the "emacs" group can update via sftp.

bzr.notengoamigos.org is pretty well hosted.  If anyone has problems
updating their branches form there I would be interested in hearing
about it.  That's especially true if you start from one of the pre-made
bzr repositories that I have at the site.

I have seen problems with updates if the branch the person is updating
from gets changed, but that shouldn't be a problem if you aren't pulling
down all 100,000 changesets.