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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: paul r <paul.r.ml@gmail.com>
Cc: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>,
	Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
	Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault]
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:31:23 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080325233123.GD1641@muc.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e30f0f320803251528o6449362ap723c6bd7c8e26aa9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Paul,

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:28:55PM +0100, paul r wrote:
> 2008/3/25, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>:

> >  I've been thinking; what are the requirements here?  I think they're:
> >  (i) It must be _easy_ for a newbie to start an Emacs in "lazy" mode
> >   (i.e., with the UI stuff from lesser applications enabled).
> ok
> >  (ii) The said newby must be made aware that she's started a "dumbed
> >    down" version of Emacs, and encouraged to switch a standard setup.

> I think this is acceptable. Emacs(easy) must be made to minimize
> surprise, then going from emacs(simple) to emacs(regular) should remain
> a doable path, with a tutorial explaining what will change, and why
> those changes will increase power. If this is well implemented, I think
> it can be a working solution.

> >  (iii) The most standard way of starting emacs (i.e., the command
> >  "emacs") must start the standard setup.

> I do not agree on that point. Again, I think power users must adapt,
> not beginners.

I think beginners should be urged to become power users.  Although it's
easier to type "emacs" than "emacs-easy", the difference is so small that
it isn't a nag.

> >  I think all these things can be achieved with a simple alias:

> >     % alias emacs_easy='emacs --load /path/to/lisp/emacs-easy.el'

> >  .  emacs-easy.el, besides setting up the "easy" defaults, should display
> >  a startup screen with a message something like:

> Could you detail what is the benefit from your pov of an alias over a
> "mode", as proposed before ?

It's easier.  There's no configuration to be done, no options to set.
Beginners aren't going to be doing any configuration.  Yet there must be
some slight pressure to urge them eventually to convert to the "standard"
config.  If the beginner first has to insert "(transient-mark-mode -1)"
into her .emacs, whether manually or through `customize-option', she'll
never get round to doing it.

> >    "You are running an Emacs configuration designed to be easy to
> >     _learn_.  When you have become somewhat proficient in its use, you
> >     may wish to switch to a standard Emacs setup, which is optimised for
> >     ease of _use_ rather than ease of learning."

> I like how you formulate the difference between ease of learn and ease
> of use.

Thanks!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).




  reply	other threads:[~2008-03-25 23:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 151+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-03-23 23:00 Transient Mark Mode on by default Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 10:15 ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 11:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 13:06   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-03-24 13:28   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-03-24 13:57   ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-24 15:05   ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 15:15     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 20:09     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-24 20:32       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 21:02         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 18:31           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-30 19:19             ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-30 19:34               ` Peter Danenberg
2008-03-30 19:42               ` paul r
2008-03-30 19:47                 ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:24                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 20:29                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:37                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-31  3:10                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  7:48                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  9:42                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  9:18                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-30 21:51                   ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-30 22:16                   ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  7:46                     ` David Kastrup
2008-03-31  8:00                       ` M Jared Finder
2008-03-31  8:07                         ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 19:45               ` David Kastrup
2008-03-30 20:29                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-30 22:42                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:11                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-30 23:50               ` William Xu
2008-03-31  3:23                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-31  3:36                   ` William Xu
2008-03-31 16:25               ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 18:08                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  0:20                   ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-01  0:40                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-04-01  1:24                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-01  1:26                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-04-01  6:14                       ` David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:34                         ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 13:53                           ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-02 16:27                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 17:34                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 18:05                               ` Drew Adams
2008-04-02 22:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 20:27                               ` Chong Yidong
2008-04-02 21:29                                 ` Kim F. Storm
2008-04-06 10:09                           ` cua-selection-mode by default (was: Transient Mark Mode on by default) David Kastrup
2008-04-01 21:04                       ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:05                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-01 21:53                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-04-02  7:45                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-24 22:34         ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  1:45       ` Bastien
2008-03-25  1:41     ` Bastien
2008-03-24 17:28   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-24 19:54     ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:36       ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 20:57         ` paul r
2008-03-24 21:04           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:42             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 21:23           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-29  9:18             ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 22:28           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:01             ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:11             ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:34               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-24 23:57                 ` paul r
2008-03-25  1:54       ` Bastien
2008-03-25 11:25         ` paul r
2008-03-25 23:49           ` Bastien
2008-03-26  8:49             ` paul r
2008-03-24 22:15     ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-24 22:47       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-24 23:29         ` paul r
2008-03-24 23:33           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:37           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:06         ` Honoring traditional defaults Bastien
2008-03-25  2:23           ` Bastien
2008-03-25  3:00           ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-25  5:23         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  7:21           ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode onbydefault] Drew Adams
2008-03-25 19:36             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25 21:38         ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode on bydefault] Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:42           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 22:26           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient MarkMode " Drew Adams
2008-03-25 23:53             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-26  1:49               ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 22:28           ` Honoring traditional defaults - how to do it. [was: Transient Mark Mode " paul r
2008-03-25 23:31             ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2008-03-31 16:24             ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-31 21:12               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-02  2:53                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-04-02 11:15                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-31 22:06               ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:22       ` Honoring traditional defaults Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 23:38         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 12:23           ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-25  5:17         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:12       ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 20:53       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25 21:00         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-26  1:55         ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-26  7:01           ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Drew Adams
2008-03-26  6:54         ` Honoring traditional defaults [was: Transient Mark Mode on by default] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-29  9:52       ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-24 18:40   ` Transient Mark Mode on by default Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 19:09     ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-24 20:16       ` Sascha Wilde
2008-03-24 20:40         ` paul r
2008-03-24 20:55           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25  3:21           ` Evans Winner
2008-03-24 20:46         ` Drew Adams
2008-03-24 21:47       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-03-25  0:29         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  0:38           ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  8:16           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-24 22:27       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-03-25  0:07         ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  1:50       ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-25  4:06         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25  7:07           ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  7:23             ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 13:24               ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25 13:36             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-25 14:19               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-26  4:47           ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-27  2:53             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-27 14:08               ` paul r
2008-03-25  7:14         ` Jan Djärv
2008-03-25 12:37           ` René Kyllingstad
2008-03-24 22:10     ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-24 23:44       ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  0:39         ` Thomas Lord
2008-03-25  1:17           ` Jason Rumney
2008-03-25  3:07             ` Chong Yidong
2008-03-25  7:07               ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25  8:28       ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25 21:01         ` Richard Stallman
2008-03-26  0:50           ` Mathias Dahl
2008-03-25  2:12     ` Bastien
2008-03-25  2:50       ` Mike Mattie
2008-03-29  9:01   ` Jari Aalto
2008-03-31 22:48     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-04-01  0:14       ` Sebastian Rose
2008-04-01  1:09         ` Mike Mattie
2008-04-01  1:16         ` Mike Mattie

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