From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Mattie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gathering data on how people use Emacs Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:46:44 -0700 Message-ID: <20080324194644.33b4d627@reforged> References: <20080324161300.191df4b6@reforged> <87bq531u1s.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/AcoF5=hOrqTGYt1hhgMgm8F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206413464 13698 80.91.229.12 (25 Mar 2008 02:51:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:51:04 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 25 03:51:34 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JdzG6-0005DN-Vu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 03:51:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdzFV-0006YW-Op for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:50:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdzFR-0006X7-L1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:50:49 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdzFR-0006WZ-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:50:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdzFR-0006WN-1N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:50:49 -0400 Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.181]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JdzFQ-00085w-Hj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:50:48 -0400 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so3974124wah.10 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; bh=CTYgnVzzK/ezGGd7+iVJUKyfKTr9/shcXCpog+eSjwQ=; b=miSrvz6xWywsK8X28nUAmrvz16rgA49sAMFoRpm1IPqC9WxTvDR9/TNruDS1V9rkVVmz9GeCx19TzUZl2FdQli/hr+br70mW9DraokGn/TixS4s/FFiVHMC+00n91iCethDUQMw6qnSo/oDZUUooWrVO1cNnhy6JnDjPUOQxgnk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; b=gFtQ3UAjbhmdl7LcDzlWPEyntzdBXrgZY1Z+wuAv9b08spJgxLxDOxCccLJ7Bna4NOT7mnvn5rFiJOHol+2qQgJmQE0jY2xiOZIapKk7vYbvOnF+Akjb7eex6lY2ESEzjjSV3FT3D22PGSFVyoYal1BxDfMmzya9NwnJY9ExVEA= Original-Received: by 10.114.200.2 with SMTP id x2mr13122535waf.143.1206413446758; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from reforged ( [71.217.206.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j28sm13901221waf.36.2008.03.24.19.50.46 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:50:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87bq531u1s.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93382 Archived-At: --Sig_/AcoF5=hOrqTGYt1hhgMgm8F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:17:19 +0100 Bastien wrote: > I'd rather poll users with simple questions like: >=20 > - Should `transient-mark-mode' be ON by default? > - Should `show-paren-mode' be ON by default? >=20 > Of course, `transient-mark-mode' might not sound familiar to newbies. > Then we need to find a better way to describe what it actually does. >=20 > FWIW we can re-use a simple safe form like this one: >=20 > http://www.legito.net/report_bug.php >=20 > The output of this form is sent by email and the content of the email > looks like: >=20 > ,---- > | * [#A] Bug report :BUG: > | <2008-24-24 Mon 17:00> > | :PROPERTIES: > | :ID: fu3ouer3dt4igvt7fa2u4c6qv1 > | :Package: org.el > | :Emacs: Emacs 22 > | :END: > `---- >=20 > So that you can easily gather the result of the poll in an Emacs > org-mode file. >=20 A poll is more of a political measure than a rational one IMHO. If the expe= rts in this issue are still negotiating terminology and the consequences of design on c= ode and users I don't see how a polling of people ignorant to the particulars will shed u= seful light on the subject. That doesn't mean that I object to the idea, merely that the data should be= considered political rather than rational. The same perspective discounts common sense as more d= angerous than useful. I struggle to recall a single moment in human history when common sense of = the time had any congruence to reality. In fact common sense is usually the cause of financi= al boom/bust cycles and other embarrassments of the species. Again, a poll is at least method, so I will support such a thing as progres= s, and vote if that is to be the method for decision making. I did, on my walk, strike upon an idea for facilitating the search for the = Right Thing. We are, as a group of=20 programmers trained in science and rational analysis. We should apply our s= kills and tools effectively. I think=20 a good start would be leveraging the EmacsWiki. There we could setup pages that define terms with acceptable precision, bui= ld analysis, and pool knowledge until our conclusions and the methods by which we reach them are the pride = of the community. E-mail can be effective in debate but often knowledge is diffused throughou= t the thread rather than concentrated as a central document does. WDOT ? I am willing to put time into a constructive collaboration in pursuit of th= e Right Thing, though my time is like everyone else's limited. I will poke around on Apple's HIG research, see if= I can extract some definition of terms and research in this area. I am not a Wiki guy, so I would expect a Wiki en= thusiast to flash some skill in getting a initial structure set properly. Cheers, Mike Mattie --Sig_/AcoF5=hOrqTGYt1hhgMgm8F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH6GeUdfRchrkBInkRAmvUAKCgzDly/xaUMPZbCF0Zu5wgCLQpdwCgio3O J7fA0ztHcFV9TMA2oPMVi6k= =SHQj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/AcoF5=hOrqTGYt1hhgMgm8F--