From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Mattie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Transient Mark Mode on by default Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:01:19 -0700 Message-ID: <20080324160119.4244bd17@reforged> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324115510.GA1563@muc.de> <001f01c88dee$b7d48430$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/awSkXRDOuGsS7wQUZAyOBhV"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1206399954 11591 80.91.229.12 (24 Mar 2008 23:05:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:05:54 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 25 00:06:24 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jdvju-0007Mj-TG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:06:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdvjJ-0002yV-Sz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdvjH-0002yQ-Fk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JdvjF-0002y4-Vk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JdvjF-0002xz-SU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:21 -0400 Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.183]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JdvjF-0001CF-BT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:21 -0400 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so3886706wah.10 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:05:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; bh=0l1X9F2qGTMlsvseH7DGBBZgBgYcemufpjhyh0COKxE=; b=Eros0jSbymOSVwmqpcpRPRIS1kUZCxxHbdQQpmyqi9TXFLTTz3a113GFxFyo59+4jnOKhzhcT11taw9dFSYCv0ydJe4EOKd1qftmW02M4AF0ha8Kdlro52XU3ORirCIMzK1GYLOx97DJ/sVUOuODDRrU2B+Sg992L8LYygNY5q8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; b=Vy1b2JR7VOAUS2rrd2H0oqv57JhsNKwz301PvIeKp8nBBGHZFt7q7gzt7oy3rsQaeLljh/CZzfTwYKoQjLIql9IG1DhBQQO02pvUJwroRT3pJuiwUnfo67cxpFugof81nHRF7abeyKpLtZAv9HI7C5K4bDYo2+3s3wGebIFlAKM= Original-Received: by 10.114.80.4 with SMTP id d4mr12934183wab.44.1206399918249; Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from reforged ( [71.217.206.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k35sm13560853waf.30.2008.03.24.16.05.17 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:05:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.8; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:93345 Archived-At: --Sig_/awSkXRDOuGsS7wQUZAyOBhV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:28:16 +0100 Sascha Wilde wrote: > "paul r" wrote: > > Most average developpers I know will simply never tweak any of the > > piece of software they use. > [...] > > I think emacs customization process is already fairly good. But many > > beginners will simply give up *before* even discovering M-x > > customize >=20 > To be honest: I don't care to much about that kind of people. There > is a fair amount of software out there to suit there (limited?) needs > -- please don't try to make Emacs just another one of these. >=20 > I like Emacs for being driven by "doing the right thing" and by that > aiming to become the perfect tool from hackers for hackers[0]. >=20 > By all means: educate those who are willing to learn: don't make it > unnecessarily hard for them and point them in the right direction, > e.g. by pointing out that customization is crucial to make Emacs > "yours". >=20 > But _pretty please_ don't choose the defaults on what joe average > programmers would expect. I second this as well. I also find the entire concept of a "average joe" to be profoundly wrong. Some people may lack the initiative to search for a better way, but that does not mean that they do not have the capacity for it. Let Emacs be a refuge for progress, average is not a legacy. " Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door. " - Emma Lazarus http://www.bartleby.com/59/6/givemeyourti.html > cheers > sascha >=20 > [0] btw. I think that a significant number of those folks you are > talking about will not know the meaning of the word "hacker" in > the sense I'm using it here. Coincidence? I don't think so... ;-) --Sig_/awSkXRDOuGsS7wQUZAyOBhV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH6DK/dfRchrkBInkRApi1AKDc10I4yFaj1upEXZLrEFDKb7p+GgCfa5Ej qb6DPH13CYLOXGXs5FIZb3o= =WPOv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/awSkXRDOuGsS7wQUZAyOBhV--