Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

Once Emacs 22 is released, I would like to hand over Emacs maintenance
to one person or a small team.  The new maintainer or maintainers
would take responsibility for making sure new releases are made and
that they are reliable, and for focusing attention on priority
projects for improvement.

Please write to me if you would like to offer to be the maintainer or
to be one of a team.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  > Once Emacs 22 is released, I would like to hand over Emacs maintenance
  > to one person or a small team.  The new maintainer or maintainers
  > would take responsibility for making sure new releases are made and
  > that they are reliable, and for focusing attention on priority
  > projects for improvement.

Is this still the plan?  Last time this was discussed on the list many
very capable volunteers were found.

Wouldn't it be better for Emacs to do this sooner rather than later?

Is there anything that the Emacs contributors can do to help this
process? (Other than put in on their 2008 wishlists :-)

Thanks.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

      > Once Emacs 22 is released, I would like to hand over Emacs maintenance
      > to one person or a small team.  The new maintainer or maintainers
      > would take responsibility for making sure new releases are made and
      > that they are reliable, and for focusing attention on priority
      > projects for improvement.

    Is this still the plan?  Last time this was discussed on the list many
    very capable volunteers were found.

A few people volunteered, and they could be useful members of a team,
but (as I recall) they didn't include the most knowledgeable people.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  >       > Once Emacs 22 is released, I would like to hand over Emacs maintenance
  >       > to one person or a small team.  The new maintainer or maintainers
  >       > would take responsibility for making sure new releases are made and
  >       > that they are reliable, and for focusing attention on priority
  >       > projects for improvement.
  > 
  >     Is this still the plan?  Last time this was discussed on the list many
  >     very capable volunteers were found.
  > 
  > A few people volunteered, and they could be useful members of a team,
  > but (as I recall) they didn't include the most knowledgeable people.

OK, if this is the cause of the blockage, then let's work on what your
criteria would be for choosing the maintainer(s).


One proposal was to have a committee with 3 people:

- a "technical lead" which is responsible for the "quality" of the
  major modifications to the software (i.e. C and Lisp code).

- a "release manager" which is responsible for the release, including
  documentation, copyright stuff, packaging, etc  (basically anything
  else)

- a "chairman" (the third person) who has the "final word" on any
  disputes in the committee, based on an overall understanding of
  Emacs "policies, history and visions" (whatever they are)...

And there were volunteers for these positions: Kenichi Handa, Chong
Yidong and Stefan Monnier.

If you'd like more people on the committee, why not just nominate them
and maybe they will accept?

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Mike Mattie]

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On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:22:53 -0800
Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>   >       > Once Emacs 22 is released, I would like to hand over
>   >       > Emacs maintenance to one person or a small team.  The new
>   >       > maintainer or maintainers would take responsibility for
>   >       > making sure new releases are made and that they are
>   >       > reliable, and for focusing attention on priority projects
>   >       > for improvement.
>   > 
>   >     Is this still the plan?  Last time this was discussed on the
>   > list many very capable volunteers were found.
>   > 
>   > A few people volunteered, and they could be useful members of a
>   > team, but (as I recall) they didn't include the most
>   > knowledgeable people.
> 
> OK, if this is the cause of the blockage, then let's work on what your
> criteria would be for choosing the maintainer(s).
> 
> 
> One proposal was to have a committee with 3 people:
> 
> - a "technical lead" which is responsible for the "quality" of the
>   major modifications to the software (i.e. C and Lisp code).
> 
> - a "release manager" which is responsible for the release, including
>   documentation, copyright stuff, packaging, etc  (basically anything
>   else)
> 
> - a "chairman" (the third person) who has the "final word" on any
>   disputes in the committee, based on an overall understanding of
>   Emacs "policies, history and visions" (whatever they are)...

I don't think that is a very good description of a chairman. A chairman
arbitrates procedure and typically does not vote. With your triad
you cannot even reach a quorum without the chairman.

Creating a political structure is non-trivial with many subtle pitfalls.
Programmers are not automatically skilled at this simply because they
work with complex systems.

Most of the politically structured projects I have read, or participated
in functioned more like an Asperger's convention than a decision making
process.

I think a benevolent dictator who can interact with people according
to social norms is key for a project, especially when the profession
is considered a haven for High Functioning Autism and a variety of
other handicaps.

A leader should be able to understand the people he leads, where their
strengths can be used, and how to avoid the certain pitfalls inherent
in every personality. If a committee helps then it's a good thing. 

The one certainty of this thread is that it will grow like cancer until
the constitutionalists form a separate mailing list.

Just stating the obvious from the back row.

> And there were volunteers for these positions: Kenichi Handa, Chong
> Yidong and Stefan Monnier.
> 
> If you'd like more people on the committee, why not just nominate them
> and maybe they will accept?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-devel mailing list
> Emacs-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel

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_______________________________________________
Emacs-devel mailing list
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Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Miles Bader]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> A few people volunteered, and they could be useful members of a team,
> but (as I recall) they didn't include the most knowledgeable people.

Stefan volunteered, and he's extremely knowledgeable about Emacs, and
about software in general (as well as having a generally easy-going
temperment, which is good for a maintainer).

-Miles

-- 
Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra.  Suddenly it flips over,
pinning you underneath.  At night the ice weasels come.  --Nietzsche

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    Stefan volunteered, and he's extremely knowledgeable about Emacs, and
    about software in general (as well as having a generally easy-going
    temperment, which is good for a maintainer).

Indeed, Stefan is quite knowledgeable.
I didn't remember Stefan had volunteered.

I will talk with Stefan and Yidong and Handa about this.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  >     Stefan volunteered, and he's extremely knowledgeable about Emacs, and
  >     about software in general (as well as having a generally easy-going
  >     temperment, which is good for a maintainer).
  > 
  > Indeed, Stefan is quite knowledgeable.
  > I didn't remember Stefan had volunteered.
  > 
  > I will talk with Stefan and Yidong and Handa about this.

Is there anything happening about this? Many of us would like to know... 

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
over Emacs development to them.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Dan Nicolaescu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  > Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
  > over Emacs development to them.

Thank you for the many years in service!

Congratulation Stefan and Chong!

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Mike Mattie]

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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:08:24 -0800
Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu> wrote:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>   > Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
>   > over Emacs development to them.
> 
> Thank you for the many years in service!
> 
> Congratulation Stefan and Chong!
> 
> 

Emacs is one for the history books. Congratulations, RMS, if it is not premature.

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Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[David Kastrup]

Mike Mattie <codermattie@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:08:24 -0800
> Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu> wrote:
>
>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>>   > Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
>>   > over Emacs development to them.
>> 
>> Thank you for the many years in service!
>> 
>> Congratulation Stefan and Chong!
>> 
>
> Emacs is one for the history books. Congratulations, RMS, if it is not
> premature.

It is.  The revolution goes on.  Now that Fidel Castro has retired,
Emacs has the chance to develop into the longest ruling entity ever.  Of
course, it is the longest ruling editor already.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

This is the fourth time that the Maintainer of GNU Emacs has been
someone other than me.  Previous maintainers include Joe Arceneaux,
Jim Blandy, and Gerd Moellmann.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Paul Michael Reilly]

Richard Stallman wrote:
> Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
> over Emacs development to them.
> 

Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've 
seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.

I'll echo Dan's congratulations to Stefan and Yidong.  Best of luck to you.

And for all that Emacs has meant to me, I still owe you an unmeasurable 
debt for your contributions Richard, which I look forward to seeing 
continued in other arenas.  Thank you so much.

-pmr

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Juanma Barranquero]

>  Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've
>  seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.

I suppose some sort of official announcement will be released sooner or later...

             Juanma

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[David Kastrup]

"Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:

>>  Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've
>>  seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.
>
> I suppose some sort of official announcement will be released sooner
> or later...

Well, there is hardly a place where "released sooner or later" sounds
more ominous than the Emacs developer list.

But great news, anyway.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 3:33 PM, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:

>  Well, there is hardly a place where "released sooner or later" sounds
>  more ominous than the Emacs developer list.

The community of NetHack fans.

3.4.3 -- 2003-12-08  (last minor release, now more than four years ago)
3.4.2 -- 2003-08-11
3.4.1 -- 2003-02-23
3.4.0 -- 2002-02-20  (last major release)
3.3.0 -- 1999-12-10  (previous major release)

That's a pace similar to Emacs development, with the added drawback
that NetHack development is not done in the open; the DevTeam
maintains absolute silence (there's no public repository, or mailing
list), and suddenly, a new release springs fully formed, like Athena
from Zeus' forehead.

>  But great news, anyway.

Yeah. Congrats to Stefan and Yidong, of course.

             Juanma

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    Well, there is hardly a place where "released sooner or later" sounds
    more ominous than the Emacs developer list.

That is a mean thing to say.  Attacks like that make the job the Emacs
maintainer harder.

If you cannot say something constructive, please don't say anything.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[T. V. Raman]

1+ on all counts.

Richard, please accept my thanks for Emacs --- life wouldn't be
the same without it.

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Michael Reilly <pmr@pajato.com> writes:
    Paul> Richard Stallman wrote:
    >> Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to
    >> hand over Emacs development to them.
    >> 
    Paul> 
Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages
    Paul> I've seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it
    Paul> using Rmail.
    Paul> 
    Paul> I'll echo Dan's congratulations to Stefan and Yidong.
    Paul> Best of luck to you.
    Paul> 
    Paul> And for all that Emacs has meant to me, I still owe you
    Paul> an unmeasurable debt for your contributions Richard,
    Paul> which I look forward to seeing continued in other
    Paul> arenas.  Thank you so much.
    Paul> 
    Paul> -pmr
    Paul> 
    Paul> 
    Paul> 
    Paul> 

-- 
Best Regards,
--raman

      
Email:  raman@users.sf.net
WWW:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/
AIM:    emacspeak       GTalk: tv.raman.tv@gmail.com
PGP:    http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc
Google: tv+raman 
IRC:    irc://irc.freenode.net/#emacs

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've 
    seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.

People are writing as if I had announced my final retirement.
This is just a matter of other people maintaining Emacs.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Miles Bader]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> People are writing as if I had announced my final retirement.
> This is just a matter of other people maintaining Emacs.

There was a somewhat misleading headline posted on reddit.com (a
tabloid-like discussion site), which may account for some of the odd
responses:

   "After 32 years, RMS to step down as GNU Emacs maintainer "
   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-02/msg02140.html

-Miles

p.s., no I don't read reddit, I just heard about it ... :-)

-- 
Virtues, n. pl. Certain abstentions.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Chong Yidong]

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

> There was a somewhat misleading headline posted on reddit.com (a
> tabloid-like discussion site), which may account for some of the odd
> responses:
>
>    "After 32 years, RMS to step down as GNU Emacs maintainer "
>    http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-02/msg02140.html

It's on Slashdot as well.  Not unexpected considering RMS's rock star
status in certain circles... :-)

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Paul Michael Reilly]

Richard Stallman wrote:
>     Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've 
>     seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.
> 
> People are writing as if I had announced my final retirement.
> This is just a matter of other people maintaining Emacs.

I think most people realize that you're not packing in your laptop but 
that your announcement is a chance to say something that otherwise might 
seem out of place, specifically how grateful most of us are for Emacs 
and your many accomplishments.  And a chance to offer up a vote of 
confidence in Stefan and Yidong.

Enjoy,

-pmr

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Claus]

>  I think most people realize that you're not packing in your laptop but
>  that your announcement is a chance to say something that otherwise might
>  seem out of place, specifically how grateful most of us are for Emacs
>  and your many accomplishments.  And a chance to offer up a vote of
>  confidence in Stefan and Yidong.

Well put, I couldn't have said it better.

I'm just another emacs-user lurking for a chance to say "thank you" to
it's creator and (future) maintainers.

Claus

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    I'm just another emacs-user lurking for a chance to say "thank you" to
    it's creator and (future) maintainers.

How about thanking us by helping?  You could pick something in
etc/TODO and implement it.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Xavier Maillard]

       Wow!  That has to be one of the most understated email messages I've 
       seen in ~30 years of receiving email, most of it using Rmail.

   People are writing as if I had announced my final retirement.

I hope you won't retire :) We need people like you, we need *you* ;)

	Xavier
-- 
http://www.gnu.org
http://www.april.org
http://www.lolica.org

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Bastien]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
> over Emacs development to them.

I have been recently blessed with a write access to Emacs CVS.

I only hope that your decision to hand over Emacs development has
nothing to do with this.

-- 
Bastien

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Jay Belanger]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
>> over Emacs development to them.
>
> I have been recently blessed with a write access to Emacs CVS.
>
> I only hope that your decision to hand over Emacs development has
> nothing to do with this.

Probably not, but you might wonder about the upcoming switch to use bzr
for Emacs.

Jay

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Xavier Maillard]

   Stefan and Yidong offered to take over, so I am willing to hand
   over Emacs development to them.

What a revolution ! Thank you very much for all you have done on
GNU Emacs and for the free software in general !

Congratulations to our new maintainer team !

	Xavier
-- 
http://www.gnu.org
http://www.april.org
http://www.lolica.org

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    What a revolution ! Thank you very much for all you have done on
    GNU Emacs and for the free software in general !

The best way to thank us is to join in and help.
You are already doing that -- so thank you, too.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Xavier Maillard]

       What a revolution ! Thank you very much for all you have done on
       GNU Emacs and for the free software in general !

   The best way to thank us is to join in and help.
   You are already doing that -- so thank you, too.

Compared to others, my contributions are rather small but thank
you for your encouragements.

	Xavier
-- 
http://www.gnu.org
http://www.april.org
http://www.lolica.org

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Vijay Rao]

I suppose I am not alone in experiencing this.Work is a joy because of  
emacs.

After 15 years of so-called 'on the job training' and apprenticeship,  
I discovered the Emacs editor, and my journey began all over again.
Congratulations and gratitude are due to the people who are associated  
with emacs development.


Vijay Rao.

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

There is a lot of work to be done on Emacs.  Would you like
to help?

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Vijay Rao]

Yes, I would like to help.


On Feb 23, 2008, at 7:54 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:

> There is a lot of work to be done on Emacs.  Would you like
> to help?

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Richard Stallman]

    > There is a lot of work to be done on Emacs.  Would you like
    > to help?

How about looking at etc/TODO in the latest sources, and implementing
one of the projects there?

Re: Looking for a new Emacs maintainer or team

[Vijay Rao]

Have looked at the list in etc/TODO.
Will Do.


On Feb 24, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:

>> There is a lot of work to be done on Emacs.  Would you like
>> to help?
>
> How about looking at etc/TODO in the latest sources, and implementing
> one of the projects there?