From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tentative diagnosis of TMM's problem. [Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default] Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:34:58 +0000 Message-ID: <20080223113458.GB2513@muc.de> References: <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20080220200142.GA1979@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203765757 17853 80.91.229.12 (23 Feb 2008 11:22:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: wilde@sha-bang.de, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, storm@cua.dk, miles@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 23 12:23:00 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JSsT2-00053N-T9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:22:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSsSW-0001pN-Q8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:22:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSsSP-0001mY-VB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:22:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSsSO-0001lV-6s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:22:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSsSN-0001lS-UH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:22:15 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1] helo=mail.muc.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JSsSN-00078d-5m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:22:15 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 14801 invoked by uid 3782); 23 Feb 2008 11:22:13 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p57AF623D.dip.t-dialin.net [87.175.98.61]) by colin2.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:22:09 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3204 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Feb 2008 11:34:58 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.5 (Fettercairn) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.6-4.9 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:90114 Archived-At: Hi, Richard! On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 04:16:37AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > Strongly agreed! It should be obvious, really - using Emacs with > TMM is so radically different from using it without, that it's > difficult to imagine anybody not being unhappy with (at least) one > of these options. > I am surprised by that statement. With mark-even-if-inactive set, the > difference is small. What difference are you talking about that you > think is "radical"? In Transient Mark Mode, you have two modes (in the sense of vi's "command mode" and "insert mode"), and the behaviour of many common key sequences differs greatly between them. Standard Emacs doesn't otherwise have modes in that sense. Perhaps less radical, Emacs has traditionally been a peaceful editor - it doesn't flash, it doesn't bang, doesn't explode dialogue boxes (or even dialog boxes ;-) in your face, it doesn't thrust menus into your text when you use a key sequence, and so on. I suppose isearch lazy highlighting is an exception here, but that hardly invalidates the rule. Transient Mark Mode, where massive refontification can occur for the simplest of actions makes Emacs significantly more intrusive. I don't think this should be done by default. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).