From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Mattie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:09:43 -0800 Message-ID: <20080222150943.5cc9e033@reforged> References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <85ablvftqe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcg1xo6q.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87fxvlcc0i.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87mypsoo6k.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/wRrM2pModfqLJqyW4TrbtHi"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=PGP-SHA1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203722079 19325 80.91.229.12 (22 Feb 2008 23:14:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:14:39 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 23 00:15:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JSh6X-0002gU-LH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:14:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSh62-00037V-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:14:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSh4S-00021E-Hr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:12:48 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSh4R-00020o-RU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:12:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSh4R-00020e-P4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:12:47 -0500 Original-Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.176]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JSh4R-0004Mt-QV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:12:48 -0500 Original-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k34so650693wah.10 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:12:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; bh=PJUzdsqm6WC1CRSCax2SqDplOLK/8vVWbLOsXCKkDxo=; b=OQAIyx0VksIN2k6Km9R/0aOBV/pq66pNQTKjKDMtUPSiCtmSIfgni/coDDBYaxbhqoOGngt4s2LJ+kW3Q/2cdfInoFZ8mo1lexmmJ+QWzMsRZsa/doju2O2rMRU88Q1OEKO7Ug8O0zCAr62c/jmMLtAuIIPRFRuGX6u4kjc56mE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; b=cXKtemxgEd/9PLRvqk9MsbxYHMJTW34f3ZPhH+ADXCRDdaLkFBGnxnTW5yVUlAS8PaXMTyK4wrxDlpYy/KyYyzPXmm/iwwdigxIf4rNtDqdvjAUfI4hI+FcSGIL8Ac09jIi76Chc5v1T9qM4vNUenIzKaVm8KqohaKEFH/q4Hr8= Original-Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr711827wac.45.1203721965952; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:12:45 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from reforged ( [71.217.206.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q20sm3204729pog.5.2008.02.22.15.12.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:12:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87mypsoo6k.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.0.2 (GTK+ 2.12.5; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:90056 Archived-At: --Sig_/wRrM2pModfqLJqyW4TrbtHi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:12:35 +0000 Bastien wrote: > Sascha Wilde writes: >=20 > >> My point is that there are really two ways of having the active > >> region highlighted by default: either by setting > >> transient-mark-mode to t, or by letting C-SPC turn Transient Mark > >> mode temporarily on. > > > > The difference is that in the case of setting transient-mark-mode > > to t I can still put (transient-mark-mode -1) in my .emacs file to > > get back the old behavior. In case of the later "solution" there > > would be no way to get back the original behavior -- or am I > > mistaken? >=20 > Since C-@ would be bound to the old C-SPC behavior (only set mark) you > would be able to set C-SPC back to this old behavior. >=20 > Or you would have a variable deciding whether C-SPC should trigger > Transient Mark mode temporarily. =20 >=20 After following a bit of this thread I decided to challenge my assumptions and strain my brain to come up with scenarios where highlighting is truly useful. I was able to dig up several. Ediff is I think the best example. The highli= ghting shows precisely what changed, with a higher granularity than a plain contex= t diff. Simply put I am more effective at finding what I need with the highlighting= since it points me straight to my task, which is analyzing the difference in two = buffers. Another scenario is where I am not sure of my bounds. A good example is act= ive-paren which I use. When I am not sure of my brace matching placing my cursor on a= paren shows me the scope as long as it's within the viewport. However when I am trying to delineate a span of text within a buffer a high= light does not help me at all, because all it does is highlight the middle. My goal in cre= ating a span is to find the bounds, the middle is obviously implied! You can try it yourself. Try to mark a region while looking at the highligh= ted part only. Your stuck, because it's highlighting were you have been, not where you nee= d to go. To take paraphrase from Lewis Carrol, it's riding the horse backwards to se= e where you have been. I do see one way that it could be useful though. Often with active-paren wh= en the opening or closing brace is outside the viewport it degrades to showing the bounded= line in the minibuffer. With any luck this code fragment might pop up the image of wher= e the bound is in my head. A useful highlighting would pop up/down some window ala icicles that automa= tically shrunk to the required size, and highlighted up to the mark/boundary that was norm= ally outside of the viewport. it would be good for active paren, and those cases where you do actually fo= rget where you dropped a mark. It would have to be on-demand as emacs would go nuts visual= ly during simple scrolling, but does that at least sounds useful and novel ? Out of this enormous thread is it possible to invent a highlighting feature= that shows me *what I am looking for*, not what I already found ? Or maybe rephrased can highlighting tell me what I don't already know ? Cheers, Mike Mattie P.S: forgot isearch. useful highlighting there. P.P.S: what about changing the arrow keys to move like M-f,M-b ? If I set a= mark I probably want to scoot around for navigation or creating a region. That would be use= ful. --Sig_/wRrM2pModfqLJqyW4TrbtHi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHv1Y3dfRchrkBInkRAhIUAJ9JQpr/o58KHxuPj+vsEPSyknyUBwCgyYIr JPrGTNjrqKfggtg59w/z3oI= =EIwR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/wRrM2pModfqLJqyW4TrbtHi--