From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andreas =?iso-8859-1?q?R=F6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Let a QA department into the works Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:51:20 +0100 Message-ID: <200801050951.21101.andreas.roehler@online.de> References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199522892 8601 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 08:48:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 08:48:12 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 09:48:33 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JB4hh-0001WV-I5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:48:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JB4hL-0006T2-2v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:48:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JB4gU-0005t4-Md for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:47:14 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JB4gR-0005sG-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:47:13 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JB4gR-0005sA-J6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:47:11 -0500 Original-Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.179]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JB4gR-0006X4-16 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 03:47:11 -0500 Original-Received: from noname (p54BE847E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.190.132.126]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML29c-1JB4gP43gV-0003mn; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:47:10 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 In-Reply-To: <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> Content-Disposition: inline X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19niLeWTtX32efEMBKwPE/G4Hg4T3o1oqueemh lDVYGf6h2yOKvT+pCGB3lGyGUTjggnve3/1W4R+6uyyJhdL9Oo exS/llzw/eP2L0cJvdipw== X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86120 Archived-At: =46rom Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Am Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 00:25 schrieb Alan Mackenzie: > Hi, Eric! > > On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 11:44:54AM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > [ .... ] > Let a QA department into the works, and before > you know it you've got upwards of 100 largely meaningless fields, so that > said QA "can accurately monitor the trends and problems of the developers > and tune the company's processes accordingly". > AFAIU the way Emacs is developed is still very the same RMS described the start at MIT: programmers join the code they use and like. There is nothing wrong with that, as we have and enjoy Emacs finally. However, as far as the world of non-programmers is touched, some short-comings are obvious: Entering Emacs from a common writers/translaters/publishers life, it took me hours if not days of desperate searching to realize: text-mode has no foot-note facilities integrated. Having heard from Emacs as an editor with capabilities I simply couldn't imagine that, searched the doku over and over. (Please don't forget, while starting, you'll make a lot of stupid errors too, being aware of that. So people will not adress help groups in this state of affair, rather abondon the tool.) =46ootnotes here is simply an expample, I could list a couple of more things. Well, you could decide: let Emacs stay a born of joy for programmers and programmers only. Than distributors should tell that more clearly than its done now. Or it's said: We will have Emacs as a general editing tool. Than the needs of none-programmers should be studied in a systematic manner. To understand the needs of people of a different kind is a difficult task, as psychologists or ethnography may explain. It's a hard task as programming itself. Probably the help of experts for this will be required. =46rom there the need for such an expert heading a QA group, with some authority to make decisions how to proceed. Gr=FC=DFe Andreas R=F6hler