From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:50:51 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20080101005051.GH26639@thyrsus.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> <20071231214108.GD26639@thyrsus.com> <18297.29827.712943.195363@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199150797 20683 80.91.229.12 (1 Jan 2008 01:26:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 01:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nick Roberts Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 01 02:26:51 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9Vu3-0008F2-EN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 02:26:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vth-0000Uv-Lq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:26:25 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vtd-0000Tn-LR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:26:21 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vtd-0000TA-6h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:26:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9Vtd-0000T2-1O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:26:21 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=golux.thyrsus.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9VtZ-00071U-IO; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:26:17 -0500 Original-Received: by golux.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 23) id C3BF4CF80CD; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:50:51 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <18297.29827.712943.195363@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85791 Archived-At: Nick Roberts : > Stating that Emacs has weak leadership is a ridiculous assertion as it's > a highly successful project by any standards. The "weak leadership" characterization was Eli's, not mine. I agree with it, however; Richard has been distracted and operating under some fairly crippling constraints. > Richard has already stated that he would like to hand over > maintenance to one person or a small team. Currently you're not > offering much more than rhetoric. If you volunteered to maintain > Emacs over the next five years, say, now that might be an > interesting propsition. Alas, I can't do that. But I have already offered to put in the full-time effort required to clean up the tools situation in 2008. This would, among other things, free the actual project lead to think about the right direction for Emacs itself. > Contrary to your suggestions, there are some very talented developers on this > list, and they could probably cover areas of Emacs with which you are not > familiar. Eh? When did I ever suggest the developers here weren't "very talented"? I believe I've actually said twice that they average more capable than at Battle For Wesnoth, which is the model I've been exhibiting for good tool use. There is no shortage of talent here. I'd say some of us have become rather too rigid in our thinking, but that's a different issue. -- Eric S. Raymond