From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:12 -0500 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199106458 3836 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2007 13:07:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:07:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 31 14:07:52 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9KMx-0002p0-6B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:07:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KMb-0008Gn-Kr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KMX-0008DN-RC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:25 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KMV-00089v-Uz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KMV-00089n-Q3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:23 -0500 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=golux.thyrsus.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9KMR-000598-Vr; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:20 -0500 Original-Received: by golux.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 23) id 793D7CF80BB; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:07:12 -0500 (EST) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85730 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii : > > This is a typical modern open-source project. It's not even a > > particularly large one -- no more than a dozen core devs, 58 > > developers total. > > A striking difference with Emacs. We never had such a large group of > active developers. Really? How interesting. Makes me proportionately more important to Emacs than I thought I was. :-) The old-timers on this list should be asking themselves why, when Emacs is so undeniably important, it can't attract as many developers as a mere fantasy game. One of the ways the hacker community has changed as it has grown is that project populations are rather larger on average than they used to be. I see this as a direct effect of sites like SourceForge, Berlios, Gna!, Savannah, etc. which make it easier to coordinare larger dev groups. The Emacs project, though, is still operating at a scale and tempo I think of as being typical of the late 1980s and early 1990s. I think we are limited by poor tools, and by habits of thought derived from those poor tools. I'd like to help that change. -- Eric S. Raymond