From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vincent Lefevre Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ";0c" in terminal with slow connections Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:09:43 +0200 Message-ID: <20070909140943.GT9115@prunille.vinc17.org> References: <200709060534.l865YScm001171@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <20070906125034.GE9115@prunille.vinc17.org> <200709071413.l87EDkeI026980@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <20070908082105.GR9115@prunille.vinc17.org> <200709080835.l888ZE4d002837@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <20070908093244.GS9115@prunille.vinc17.org> <200709081617.l88GH8f3016049@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1189348675 6674 80.91.229.12 (9 Sep 2007 14:37:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 14:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 00:37:41 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IUUyW-0003qN-Vi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:09:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IUNUA-0005L8-GS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:10:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IUNU1-0005It-9L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:09:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IUNU0-0005IR-Cb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:09:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IUNU0-0005IK-1b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:09:52 -0400 Original-Received: from vinc17.pck.nerim.net ([213.41.242.187] helo=prunille.vinc17.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IUNTv-0002OO-N0; Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:09:48 -0400 Original-Received: by prunille.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0EF9418E4E0C; Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:09:43 +0200 (CEST) Mail-Followup-To: Vincent Lefevre , Dan Nicolaescu , rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200709081617.l88GH8f3016049@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> X-Mailer-Info: http://www.vinc17.org/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16-vl-r18739 (2007-09-04) X-Detected-Kernel: FreeBSD 6.x (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:78320 Archived-At: Hi, On 2007-09-08 09:17:03 -0700, Dan Nicolaescu wrote: > [Maybe you are not aware, but your tone sounds irritating. Please be > more careful on this mailing list.] Sorry if you felt that. I also found your tone irritating ("You are missing the point..."). I really hate when I spent time to configure my software (based on their documentation, standards and so on) and some other software, trying to be smarter than the user, silently overrides my configuration (and breaks the configuration of other software at the same time). > Vincent Lefevre writes: > > On 2007-09-08 01:35:14 -0700, Dan Nicolaescu wrote: > > > Vincent Lefevre writes: > > > > Why not let the user configure his xterm the way he likes? > > >=20 > > > You are missing the point, this is done because we would like > > > the users to transparently take advantage of this feature > > > without having to configure anything. > > But what about users who are used to the current configuration > > or have their own configuration?=20 >=20 > Can you please give a precise example of what you mean? e.g. with VT100 translations, as I mentioned below. (Now, I think that VT100 translations have the precedence.) But the user could have also set the configuration related to modifyOtherKeys via the X11 resources (e.g. .app-defaults/XTerm). > > If this feature is so important to have it without configuring > > anything, then why doesn't xterm enable it by default? >=20 > Don't know, please find out from the xterm guys and report back here. I'll ask Thomas about that. > > This is not sufficient: > > * Emacs won't be able to do anything for screen users, after > > detaching a session running Emacs or after switching the > > screen window. >=20 > Screen sets TERM to screen, so this won't affect such users. OK. Note that the value of TERM is configurable, though; and nothing prevents the user from setting TERM to 'xterm-something' (and this is not wrong as screen supports conventional xterm escape sequences in some way). There is even documentation that says that this is OK. For instance, http://linux.die.net/man/1/nsc says: Within putty/screen, "TERM=3Dxterm-color" works well. I suppose that for SGR, screen resets the status when switching the window or detaching the session. I don't know if it does this with modifyOtherKeys, but this is not as standard (e.g. no terminfo interface, AFAIK), and could lead to problems. > > * If Emacs crashes (this hasn't happened yet with Emacs22, > > though), the configuration will not be restored. > > * In case of a SSH or dialup connection, if the connection closes > > because of some network problem (this occurs quite frequently), > > the configuration will not be restored either. >=20 > We can only do a best effort. Only the user could configure his shell and whatever program that calls Emacs in order to restore the configuration. But again, this could lead to problems with some terminals, if the sequence does something else. > > The user can bind some key sequences (in general, ones that are not > > used in the terminal itself) to some xterm functions (e.g. to do > > scrolling, paste strings and so on). This is done with the VT100 > > translations resource. What is the effect of modifyOtherKeys on > > these bindings? (I don't have a xterm here to try...) >=20 > You seem to know about this stuff, why don't you try it and report any > problems that you find here. I'll try to do that tonight or during the week. --=20 Vincent Lef=E8vre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)