From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ryan Yeske Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS is the `released version' Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 11:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20070514182909.09EE914267@owie.lan> References: <2cd46e7f0705101124r72000f78xdf05d18ca815ca57@mail.gmail.com> <20070513084905.C95BC14297@owie.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1179167655 8475 80.91.229.12 (14 May 2007 18:34:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 14 20:34:13 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HnfN6-0002f7-E0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 20:34:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnfUs-00064k-R2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HnfUp-00064V-7Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:42:11 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HnfUn-00064J-IG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:42:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HnfUn-00064G-EK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:42:09 -0400 Original-Received: from shawmail.shawcable.com ([64.59.128.220] helo=bpd2mo1no.prod.shawcable.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HnfMz-0000P0-8D; Mon, 14 May 2007 14:34:05 -0400 Original-Received: from bpd2mi2no.prod.shawcable.com (bpd2mi2no-qfe3.prod.shawcable.com [10.0.184.121]) by bpd2mo1no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JI1000PGNKSS000@bpd2mo1no.prod.shawcable.com>; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from mail.emmett.ca ([68.146.204.233]) by bpd2mi2no.prod.shawcable.com (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0JI1001L9NKS8PG0@bpd2mi2no.prod.shawcable.com>; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.emmett.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA1C0417AB; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from mail.emmett.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (sputnik.emmett.ca [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05131-02; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: from owie.lan (unknown [10.18.1.1]) by mail.emmett.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D8141799; Mon, 14 May 2007 12:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: by owie.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 09EE914267; Mon, 14 May 2007 11:29:09 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (clamav) at mail.emmett.ca X-detected-kernel: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:71057 Archived-At: In my quick test of package.el, I was able to install and run a package in 1/10th the time it would have taken to find, download and install it manually. Can you explain why this is so? What are the jobs that you need to do without package.el, which package.el avoids? I installed package.el. Then I ran package-list-packages, was presented with a list of available packages in a buffer. I hit RET on wtf, which is a package that looks up acronyms. package.el downloaded the code, and installed and evaluated autoloads. I was then able to simply do M-x wtf to play with the new code. Had I done this manually, I would have had to locate via a web search where to ftp wtf.tar.gz (or whatever form it would be in), download it via ftp or http, save it to my personal elisp directory, untar it, and read the INSTALL file, or the commentary in the elisp file to find out what autoloads to add to my .emacs file. I would never have bothered trying out wtf.el. Having the package system install the file and setup autoloads in .emacs will not itself change emacs functionality, but will save the user a tremendous amount of tedious work. I can see how putting the autoloads in a suitable place would be a savings. That is something that could be done by a function to install certain Lisp code, which does not need that Lisp code to be a "package". Perhaps we are talking about different definitions of package. I am not referring to package system in elisp, in the same sense that common lisp has a package system, but simply a system for automating the routine retrieval and installation steps for making emacs extensions available.