From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:40:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200607180440.k6I4eOTi017515@jane.dms.auburn.edu> References: <87r70l2xza.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> <200607170354.k6H3slOj025701@jane.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153197688 20423 80.91.229.2 (18 Jul 2006 04:41:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:41:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: karl@freefriends.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, belanger@truman.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 18 06:41:25 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hOT-0002vO-Uk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:41:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hOT-0006mf-FB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:41:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hOI-0006m3-64 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:41:02 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hOH-0006lk-KH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:41:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hOH-0006lh-Gb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:41:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G2hR2-0005Vq-3r; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:43:52 -0400 Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (jane.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.201]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k6I4eu0s003029; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:40:56 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from jane.dms.auburn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6I4ePFa017518; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:40:25 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by jane.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.4+Sun/8.13.3/Submit) id k6I4eOTi017515; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:40:24 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: jane.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:21 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57243 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: Nonetheless, some of the suggested changes that Drew made are good ones. The topic of invisible text is confusing I do not see what is confusing about it. It has been claimed that it is not very useful. But it really is, for people using Info from within Emacs. The fact that quite a bit of text appears apparently out of nowhere when yanking, printing or writing to a file can be very confusing to people (I still quite often get surprised by it and I can only imagine how confusing it can be for less experienced users). The node explains to people why that happens and how they can see exactly what they are going to yank, print or write to file by temporarily making all text visible using visible-mode. This is useful knowledge, not just for Info, but for other Emacs buffers with invisible text as well. `visible-mode' which is introduced in this node, is used later to help users who want to learn how to use both the Emacs and standalone Info readers see how the same text looks in the standalone reader (and hence understand remarks about that reader) without actually having to launch that reader and search for the same example text in that reader. The note also explains how readers who prefer to have the info that Emacs (but not the standalone reader) hides by default available in Emacs as well, can achieve that by using `Info-hide-note-references'. I believe that all of this is useful information and the node is not even very long. Note that the decision to add that material to the Info manual was made after quite some discussion on Emacs devel, with your approval and with Karl's support. Sincerely, Luc.