From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Pogonyshev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Pango-like font fallback (was Re: Russian numero sign) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:39:29 +0200 Message-ID: <200603072239.29811.pogonyshev@gmx.net> References: <200602191431.36541.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200603052231.29806.pogonyshev@gmx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1141780754 25494 80.91.229.2 (8 Mar 2006 01:19:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:19:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kenichi Handa Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 08 02:19:07 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGnKP-00089S-II for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:19:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGnKO-00049H-RE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:19:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FGnK6-00047z-La for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:18:42 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FGnK3-000478-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:18:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FGmM5-0008Lj-Br for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:16:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FGjKj-00044J-CW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 16:03:05 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Mar 2006 21:00:14 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (EHLO [194.158.219.75]) [194.158.219.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 07 Mar 2006 22:00:14 +0100 X-Authenticated: #16844820 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:51342 Archived-At: Kenichi Handa wrote: > In article <200603052231.29806.pogonyshev@gmx.net>, Paul Pogonyshev writes: > > >> unify-8859-on-encoding-mode is not relevant how to read (or > >> decode) Cyrillic characters encoded in UTF-8, nor how to > >> display Cyrillic characters decoded into > >> mule-unicode-0100-24ff charset. > >> > >> Do you really mean that you solved the display problem by > >> turning it off? > > > No, there is a misundestanding. I meant `unify-8859-on-decoding'. > > So, you turned off unify-8859-on-decoding to solve the > display problem, right? Yes. When it is off, newly typed Cyrillic characters are displayed OK. When it is on, newly typed characters are displayed as boxes, even if the buffer visiting an UTF-8 file already contains properly displayed Cyrillic characters. > Then I think the reason why you can't see Cyrillic > characters while unify-8859-on-decoding is on is that your > -adobe-courier-*-iso10646-1 font doesn't contain Cyrillic > glyphs. Yeah, I suspected that all the way :) However, Emacs can do nothing about the fact that the fonts out there don't provide support for all the Unicode characters (and most fonts actually provide support for only a tiny fraction of characters...) Emacs could, however, use multiple fonts to alleviate the problem, that's what I'm proposing (for a future version.) > > In general, Emacs shows most basic characters OK with unify-on-encoding > > turned on and unify-on-decoding off, it's not like I need fancy > > characters regularly. However, Pango sure does a nicer job and I hope > > your changes doing similar things get merged into the Emacs trunk. That > > is, if another stable version is ever released. > > Please note that Pango and the other modern rendering > engines use TrueType font with a help of freetype/Xft and > fontconfig libraries. Emacs (and emacs-unicode-2 too) > currently doesn't use them, but there exists an ongoing > project for supporting TTF in Emacs. That is a valid reason why Emacs cannot use Pango (yet), but it doesn't mean Emacs cannot implement similar substitution heuristic without Pango and for a different font class. As I understand, you did that in the `emacs-unicode-2' branch. It is not something simple, but Emacs is not simple to begin with. > >> Please try to select "fontset->standard" by shift-mouse1. > >> It makes "fixed" the default family, thus has the higher > >> possibility of selecting an iso10646-1 font that support > >> Cyrillic. > > > This doesn't seem to have any effect. The screen flickers > > but displays exactly the same fonts, no matter what I > > choose in the menus. Probably because I have customized > > faces, not sure. > > First of all, do you have any iso10646-1 X core fonts that > support Cyrillic characters? No idea, sorry. How do I check? As I wrote above, Emacs does display Cyrillic characters (newly typed) when `unify-8859-on-decoding' is off. And already existing characters are displayed no matter if that mode is active or not. Paul