From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Pogonyshev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mode_switch in Emacs Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:54:31 +0200 Message-ID: <200511292154.31913.pogonyshev@gmx.net> References: <200511222150.54248.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <87mzjo2vvn.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1133294202 7166 80.91.229.2 (29 Nov 2005 19:56:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 29 20:56:33 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhBWs-00013N-9w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:52:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhBWr-0006vN-0j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:52:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EhBW9-0006pt-EU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:51:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EhBW6-0006o5-FI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:51:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EhBW3-0006nc-7o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:51:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EhBVr-0003xP-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:51:51 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Nov 2005 19:51:26 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (EHLO [194.158.209.238]) [194.158.209.238] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 29 Nov 2005 20:51:26 +0100 X-Authenticated: #16844820 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:46771 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier wrote: > >>> As I can see, everything works fine in CVS Emacs already. The Mode_s= witch > >>> key temporarily disables the russian layout while it is held in Emacs. > >>> Perhaps something is wrong in Paul's configuration where Mode_switch > >>> doesn't work correctly. > >>=20 > >> Does that hold for XIM russian layout or for LEIM russian layout or > >> for both? >=20 > > For XIM russian layout. >=20 > OK. So I guess I misunderstood Paul (or he has a different config > in which this doesn't work, in which case he should clarify). Yes, things got pretty messed with in this thread. I first started talking about my wishing for Mode_switch to switch LEIM input methods (which I use currently.) Then it forked off into discussion of how to treat those `C-= =D1=86' shortcuts with XIM layouts and I have always been in favor of mapping them to `C-w', just like LEIM does. So, Mode_switch works with XIM, but not with LEIM. Remapping of shortcuts to English (US) layout works in LEIM, but not in XIM. Of course, the second is way more important and using XIM for Russian layout is currently impossible because of it. > > If the LEIM russian input method is enabled in Emacs, I think it is too > > much to ask Emacs to temporarily disable the input method while > > Mode_switch is held. >=20 > It's not high-priority, but I think it would be good if it could be made > to work. That's what I wished in the original post. It is a wish, yes, not a bug- report. > > I see no reason to activate both XIM russian layout and LEIM russian > > input method in Emacs. >=20 > I hope we indeed all agree on this one ;-) Yeah :) > Tho now that you mention it, I'm wondering: how do people deal with the > situation where their keyboard is cyrillic and they want to use one of > Emacs's input methods (which are all based on latin chars)? >=20 > > Somewhere =D0=A1-=D1=86 may be preferable to C-w, but at least in Emacs= I think > > interpreting =D0=A1-=D1=86 as C-w is more natural. However, this is st= ill not > > very useful in Emacs because it will enable only key sequences with > > control/meta modifiers, but not with raw letters. I.e. what good is > > to process =D0=A1-=D1=86 as C-w, if `C-x b' will produce useless `C-x = =D0=B8'? >=20 > Oh boy! that's a very good point indeed. It basically means we should > postpone the decision whether to translate b into =D0=B8 to much later. LEIM input methods works just fine here. Not sure how it does so, but it works seamlessly. If Emacs could somehow receieve `switch-layout' signals from XIM and then do all the work itself, that would have basically solved the problem. I'm not sure how difficult if at all possible that is to implement. > Now how does all the above look in the case of XIM input methods that map > multi-key sequences to chars (typically for asian scripts)? As far as I'm concerned, using Emacs with any XIM layouts that is not based on latin alphabet is impossible. I assume people use LEIM, like me. May be wrong. Paul