From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Pogonyshev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta Subject: Re: thoughts on interaction of key bindings and input methods (was Re: wish: right alt/meta to switch keyboard layout while pressed) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:09:24 +0200 Message-ID: <200511282109.24612.pogonyshev@gmx.net> References: <200511222150.54248.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200511271329.39650.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <438A94E3.7070603@666.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1133213652 28508 80.91.229.2 (28 Nov 2005 21:34:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:34:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Aidan Kehoe , XEmacs Beta , Ben Wing Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 28 22:33:59 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgqaU-0002JM-OM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:31:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgqaU-0001YY-6S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:31:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EgqaF-0001V9-Mi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:30:47 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EgqaE-0001UG-MX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:30:47 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgqaE-0001Tx-GQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:30:46 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EgqaE-0003zZ-1u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:30:46 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 28 Nov 2005 21:30:42 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (EHLO [194.158.213.61]) [194.158.213.61] by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 28 Nov 2005 22:30:42 +0100 X-Authenticated: #16844820 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 In-Reply-To: <438A94E3.7070603@666.com> Content-Disposition: inline X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:46726 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:21261 Archived-At: Ben Wing wrote: > it seems that we want to have some notion of "default" layout. in my > case, i want the default layout to be us, no matter what the physical > layout, but in your case you don't want things changing just because you > temporarily switched the layout to russian. but i don't know if there > is an easy solution for both cases. There must be a misunderstanding. I'd like the keys (with modifiers) work as if the current layout was English (US), no matter what the current layout is. Without modifiers, they would of course insert the corresponding character based on the current layout. Seems like we speak of the same thing in different words, or, alternatively, I misunderstood you this time :) In fact, the internal Emacs input methods do just what I described. I just checked that. As it was mentioned here, in German layout keys for `z' and `y' are swapped relatively to the English layout. So, the key labelled `z' on my keyboard would type `y' after `C-x RET C-\ german RET'. However, combination `C-z' would still invoke `iconify-or-deiconify-frame', not `yank'. That's what I mean by physical vs. logical. It may blurry with different alphabets, like Cyrillic. But with German it should be more understandable: the key labelled `z' remains at physically the same position no matter what layout I use. However, with German layout, the logical key `z' swaps with logical key `y'. So, to finally clarify my position: I want layouts switched with external methods (`xkb') work just like Emacs internal input methods with regard to key bindings. Paul