From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Better default values for tooltip padding and `tooltip-hide-delay'? Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:46:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200510112346.j9BNkIY09373@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <87fyr77paq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1129074886 17904 80.91.229.2 (11 Oct 2005 23:54:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:54:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 12 01:54:44 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTw5-0005dN-Sl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:53:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTw4-0002wU-Gp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:53:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTq2-0008KV-K2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:47:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTps-0008Eh-AD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:47:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTpr-0008EX-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:47:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EPTps-0005Tc-1U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:47:08 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9BNl7PC021167; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:47:07 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j9BNkIY09373; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:46:18 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: cyd@stupidchicken.com In-reply-to: <87fyr77paq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (message from Chong Yidong on Tue, 11 Oct 2005 16:48:45 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:43902 Archived-At: For instance, the menu-bar item Visit New File has the tooltip Read and create a file or edit it Does the tooltip really impart any information that the item doesn't? Even in this instance, the answer is yes, it does, but not as clearly as it should. "Visit New File" is confusing, because that is not what the menu item does. It runs `C-x C-f'. In at least one other editor (gedit) the `File->New' menu item _always_ creates a _new_ file and asks you for a name when you want to save it. It is somewhat analogous to `C-x b' except that it always creates _new_ buffers "Untitled 1", "Untitled 2" and so on, without prompting the user for a buffer name (except on saving). Hence one _definitely_ needs the help echo and it should even be more explicit. What about changing it to: "Create a new file, or read an existing file, and edit it." I believe however, that the change from "Open File" running `C-x C-f' in 21.3 and earlier to the present "Visit New File" running `C-x C-f' and "Open File" running a variant of `C-x C-f' with different minibuffer completion must have been due to a discussion with a less experienced Emacs users, where once again the participants in the discussion completely misunderstood each other. The change makes the _names_ in the File menu more similar to the _names_ in less advanced editors, but since the _functionality_ is very different, I doubt that this is an improvement. The fact that these two menu items do nearly the same thing and have very different names is quite confusing too. What is the difference between visiting a file and opening a file? It also has the disadvantage that "Open File" means something different depending on the Emacs version, again with the possibility of confusing people. What about changing the item names "Visit New File" into "Open New or Existing File" and "Open File" into "Open Existing File". That makes it clear that the second is a specialization of the first. Sincerely, Luc.