From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: custom-declare-variable Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:20:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200507042320.j64NKNe15629@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1120520222 30088 80.91.229.2 (4 Jul 2005 23:37:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 23:37:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: abraham@dina.kvl.dk Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 05 01:37:00 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DpaUL-0001tE-1u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 01:36:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DpaVZ-0007wT-Br for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:37:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DpaPt-0004rg-67 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:31:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DpaPr-0004rA-Vp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:31:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DpaPH-0003yp-1X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:31:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DpaTu-0000eK-62 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:36:06 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j64NMPCK000040; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:22:25 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j64NKNe15629; Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:20:23 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:40375 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:40375 As I already pointed out in another message, there is some strangeness in the custom-declare-variable docstring and the following comment, As it was at the end of my message, it may have been overlooked. DEFAULT is stored as SYMBOL's value in the standard theme. See `custom-known-themes' for a list of known themes. For backwards compatibility, DEFAULT is also stored in SYMBOL's property `standard-value'. At the same time, SYMBOL's property `force-value' is set to nil, as the value is no longer rogue." ;; Remember the standard setting. The value should be in the standard ;; theme, not in this property. However, this would require changing ;; the C source of defvar and others as well... (put symbol 'standard-value (list default)) First of all, the docstring appears to contain a falsehood. From the comment (and from the actual code), it appears that DEFAULT is not _currently_ stored in the standard theme. But the docstring clearly seems to indicate an intent to store it in the standard theme and make standard-value obsolete, which according to the comment, requires a rewrite of defvar and various other primitives. This seems to be completely crazy. There would not appear to be anything wrong with standard-value. On the other hand, there are plenty of things wrong with the bug-saturated attempt at Custom Themes support in custom.el. So I believe that it would be very unwise to make correct functioning of Custom dependent on correct functioning of the Custom Themes support. The idea that implementing Custom themes requires changes to defvar and various other primitives seems completely crazy to me. Do we really want to do that? If not, should we not delete the above comment and remove the (apparently) false claims from the above second paragraph of the docstring: DEFAULT is stored in SYMBOL's property `standard-value'. At the same time, SYMBOL's property `force-value' is set to nil, as the value is no longer rogue. Sincerely, Luc.