From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: should xterm-mouse-mode be on by default? Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:26:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200504150126.j3F1Qto08983@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200504130141.j3D1fpAH016515@scanner2.ics.uci.edu> <200504132323.j3DNNnM01197@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1113528745 25065 80.91.229.2 (15 Apr 2005 01:32:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 01:32:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dann@ics.uci.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 15 03:32:23 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DMFgr-000245-Eh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:32:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DMFkG-00033x-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:35:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DMFhD-0002Cb-LX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:32:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DMFgw-00022Q-FN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DMFgw-000217-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:32:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMFe6-0004Lv-0S; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:29:22 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3F1Sa9N028581; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:28:36 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j3F1Qto08983; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:26:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:03:38 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:36003 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:36003 No, I have never used it. I normally use Emacs on text consoles, and the last thing I want to do is use the mouse. It is supposed to make Emacs handle the mouse in the usual way when running under an xterm, right? To me, the most basic mouse functionality, killing and yanking feels a lot more "usual" with Xterm Mouse mode _disabled_. Anybody who uses Xterm Mouse mode _needs_ to know about the SHIFT functionality. That is, needs to have read either the xterm-mouse-mode docstring or `(emacs)XTerm Mouse'. Otherwise, the most basic mouse functionality, killing and yanking, does not work anymore (except _inside_ your Emacs session). I don't understand why that should be so. Would you please explain? Doesn't Xterm Mouse mode communicate selections to X in the usual way? No, Andreas already explained why it could not possibly. In `emacs -nw', Emacs does not communicate with X. When running on Emacs on a remote machine over a slow connection, Emacs communication with X is _excessively_ slow (that is why one runs the remote Emacs with `emacs -nw' in the first place). The lack of the usual visual feedback (Emacs can not track the mouse, even with Xterm Mouse mode enabled), can also be very confusing, except to knowledgeable users. Why is this worse that with Xterm Mouse mode turned off? If Xterm Mouse mode is off and you are (for instance) dragging the mouse, the region selected for copying gets highlighted while you are dragging. If Xterm mouse mode is on, the user can not see the region being selected, there is no highlighting until you release the mouse. Moreover, point does not get updated fast enough. So if you click away from point and start dragging, you have to remember the other bound of the region (where you first clicked), because you only see it on release of the mouse. Sincerely, Luc.